BAMAD-75
Brit-Am Anthropology and DNA Update
13 April 2010 29 Nissan 5770
Contents:
1. Question from Finland about Y Haplogroup IJ
2. YDNA Reversed. Was the ADAM of DNA West European?
3. The Possible Egyptian Origins of Some Black West African Groups?
4. John Wharton: Were Some of the African Slaves in North America Descended from Ancient Egyptian Taskmasters over the Hebrews?
5. Diagram Spread of R and Other DNA Y Haplogroups
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1. Question from Finland about Y Haplogroup IJ
From: Mikko Ojanen
Subject: isogg haplotree, I+J
Shalom,
According to Y-DNA haplogroup "tree trunk" for year 2010, http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNATreeTrunk.html haplogroups I and J are very close to each other.
If i think this through, there seems to be two options: option (A) there has been such a long time since I and J parted that it renders this whole discussion unnecessary and option (B): haplogroup I should be considered at least Semitic.
If you think haplogroup I could be considered Semite, what people, besides Israelites, they could represent? Akkadians, Phoenicians, Eblaites? To me it seems a stretch to consider haplogroup I anything else than Semitic, because it is such a long time since haplogroup IJ grew away of its "father" haplogroup IJK.
I know that DNA studies cannot provide enough proof to make a 100% solid case, but i have hard time trying to give up on the idea. It strikes me as a beautiful system, something i could imagine only G-d could think of, as it can be an irrefutable proof of ones ancestry (when we have enough information..)
thank you for everything you do,
Mikko, Finland
Brit-Am Reply:
We manage BAMAD because there is a need for it. It should be remembered however that this is not really our field.
Anyway, we think that somehow or other ALL DNA haplogroups will be shown to have had environmental determinants.
It could be that they originated in their present form relatively recently.
They also have hereditary features.
DNA Y haplogroups I and J appear to be virtually the same. J is associated with Arabs, Jews, and other Middle East entities.
I is found in Scandinavia, Germany, Britain (in former Viking areas), and also (under slightly different forms) in Sardinia and in Southeast Europe.
There is evidence that the haplogroups separated from each other relatively recently. This evidence needs to be located and explained in easy-to-understand language.
2. YDNA Reversed
Was the ADAM of DNA West European?
Were R1 and N The Forefathers?
http://www.britam.org/DNA/YDNAreverse.html
The DNA Y(male-transmitted)Haplogroup R (and related) Haplogroups are the most complex. All OTHER haplogroups are contained within them only the others LACK the additions that they have. The commonly accepted theory is that these extra features (of R etc) are the results of later evolution. Nearly All known observed mutations however result in loss of DNA information, not its increase. It may be both possible and more logical to explain DNA phenomenon by considering the R haplogroups and their kin the PRIMEVAL ones from which the others devolve. This could answer a great many questions and problems that the presently accepted scenario poses.
See:
http://www.britam.org/DNA/YDNAreverse.html
3. The Possible Egyptian Origins of Some Black West African Groups?
http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)
Extracts:
# One isolated clade (or clades) of Y chromosomes that appear to belong to Haplogroup R1* (M173-derived) is found at high frequency among the native populations of northern Cameroon in west-central Africa, which is believed to reflect a prehistoric back-migration of an ancient proto-Eurasian population into Africa; some researchers have reported having also detected Haplogroup K2 Y-chromosomes at a low frequency among some of these Cameroonian populations, which also suggests a Eurasian affinity.[1] Some Y-chromosomes that appear to be closely related to the northern Cameroonian R1b1* are found at a substantial frequency among the modern population of Egypt. Many modern populations of northern Cameroon speak Chadic languages, which are classified as an ancient branch of the Afro-Asiatic superfamily of languages; the now extinct language of the Ancient Egyptians also belonged to the same superfamily.
# Individuals whose Y-chromosomes possess all the mutations on internal nodes of the Y-DNA tree down to and including M207 (which defines Haplogroup R) but which display neither the M173 mutation that defines Haplogroup R1 nor the M124 mutation that defines Haplogroup R2 are categorised as belonging to group R*. Some instances of Haplogroup R* have been reported from samples of Australian aboriginal populations.
4. John Wharton Were Some of the African Slaves in North America Descended from Ancient Egyptian Taskmasters over the Hebrews?
John Wharton wrote:
Re: Further on origin of African Americans
Thank you very much for the information Yair!
May I ask a perhaps difficult question. Is it likely that the people in East Africa that the modern African Americans descend from were of the
lower Egyptian Kingdom that took over Egypt, and enslaved the Israelites?
Thank you for any opinions or further info on this question.
Brit-Am Reply:
See our answer to this question in BAMAD 75 #3. The Possible Egyptian Origins of Some Black West African Groups.
It could be that you have opened up a new possibility. Were some of the African Slaves in North America and the Carribean descended
from Ancient Egyptians who had enslaved the Hebrews in Egypt? Was some kind of Divine Retribution involved in this? Measure for ancestral measure? Who knows?
There could be something in this notion that you appear to be suggesting.
The Afro-Centric claims that the Ancient Egyptians were all black people have been discredited.
Nevertheless, many were dark, they were African descendants of Ham who also gave rise most of the Black Nations.
They may have had a greater genetic potentiality to adapt with greater melanisation (skin darkening) when the environment required it.
They could well have migrated to West Africa, taken local women, been influenced by the environment and assimilated into native ways.
In present-day Egypt about 2 to 3 % are R1* (i.e. R1b1*) which reaches very high proportions (e.g. Hausa of Nigeria 41%) amongst some West African groups and is also a minority elements amongst the Bantu in general most of whom however are E1b1a.
