NJF-9
New Joseph Forum no.11
Ephraimites, Two Houses, Joes, Ten Tribes Teachings
13 September 2009, 24 Elul 5769
Contents:
1. Charlotte Mecklenburg: Personal Reactions
2. Tess: Each should carry on with the understanding they now have
3. Karaites and Ephraimites
|
Brit-Am Discussion Group 
|
Contents by Subject |
Research Recognition Reconciliation Contribute |
|
Site Map Contents in Alphabetical Order |
 This Site |
1. Charlotte Mecklenburg: Personal Reactions
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1386
#2. Is the Brit-Am Teaching Concerning Two Messiahs anti-Christian?
http://britam.org/now/1386Now.html#Is
Dear Yair,
I just read your Brit-am Now 1386 and want to make some comments that may or may not agree with you but hopefully will be helpful and encouraging.
When I read the articles you posted a couple of years ago about the two Messiahs I could not help but see the similarity the Joseph Messiah from my perspective is the Messiah the Christians have decided is their Messiah. I appreciate what you say about all of this from the point of view of Judah. It can not be helped that we would see things from a different point of view.
What the religious Jew can not comprehend is what it is like to be born in a society that basically does not have a cooperate set of rules and belief in the one God. Oh, maybe some in a tough spot might pray hoping they will get some help. And then if in this society you are born in a family that does believe there is a God and we can have some relationship to him and that he has made a way for that to happen, you are still just a family or a group in a church that are together in this. We are taught we are lost until we find God. (Actually I did not have to be taught, I felt it.) And the way we are able to come to him is that he sent his son to pay the price that the law exacts from people who worship other gods or have turned away from him. And so something that Judaism does not offer to those in the nations is a way to approach God in a pagan situation.
You said yourself, that Judaism would not be able to handle mass conversions. ....I agree with you ultimately it will come to light what Gods intentions were or are for this king/prince of David and how he will set up his kingdom on earth.
In my opinion he has reached most of those who would have descended from the northern tribes along with many, many others who have no interest in being in those tribes. It is true that many of those who are descended from the northern tribes have not been awaken to that fact but that could happen ever so quickly.
Your idea that we should become colonies in these various nations around Israel sounds like a good one but I am not sure scripture really alludes to that. I would rather think that comes later. I personally see in Ezekiel and other prophets that he wants to gather the two groups together, purge the land and make it holy and then go out from there to settle the lands around and keep going until his righteousness is established in all the earth.
Perhaps 20 or 30 years ago what you proposed may have been possible, but with the economies of the world crashing down all around us plus all the agitation that this is causing, I think it would be very difficult to do. We just tried to sell our home so we could move to Cyprus. I knew that in the face of odds that God could make our home sell if he wanted us in Cyprus but it did not happen.
But I do believe the Joseph tribes are supposed to help Judah win the battles and help build the temple. However, I think it is not going to happen with the weapons that are used in this world for war. There maybe some of that because Zechariah 9 says Judah is using slingshots but anything small against the technologies of this world would look like slingshots. Psalm 110 says on the day of his battle his troops will be willing. I think that is the important thing now, for the troops to be willing and then God will do what he wants with us the way he did when he brought Israel out of Egypt. However, it will be better this time. It will be like when Jacob got rid of all the idols in his household and the fear of God fell on all the inhabitants around him. The fear of God fell on the nations when Israel got to the promise land but they did not stay away from the idols and so God could not at that time establish his kingdom on earth the way he wanted to do it.
I hope that this will be an encouragement to you and other Jews as well, We may not be on the same page but we are on the page across from you and if we get our hearts center on the Great God of the Universe, and learn to love and forgive one another, it will be amazing what he can do. Our 390 X 7 years of punishment are up this year and may we merit the privilege to come home.
We Pray God Bless you with his Shalom
Charlotte Mecklenburg
2. Tess: Each should carry on with the understanding they now have
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1386
#2. Is the Brit-Am Teaching Concerning Two Messiahs anti-Christian?
http://britam.org/now/1386Now.html#Is
Shalom Yair
On the subject of two Messiahs. Your comments were very reasonable and fair. It is a pity that some would take issue over this.
Jews and Christians will by definition have seemingly opposing understanding about the identity of Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David and/or the timing of his/their appearance. This is another symptom of the difference between Jews and Joes but it does not need to be divisive. For Jews the matter is largely incidental at this stage. For Joes the matter is pivotal because it defines and legitimises us. Each should carry on with the understanding they now have. There is no need for each 'brother' to convince the other that his understanding is the correct one. As you say, all will become clear when Messiah comes for Jews and Joes together. It is not yet time to resolve these matters and anyway it is a Messianic task to reveal them - not ours.
I think you do a very good job of hearing people and putting your view without antagonism. What Brit-Am offers is quite unique and valuable. There are very few venues where this type of unpressured dialogue is possible. We should all do what we can to preserve this freedom by not being overly sensitive, defensive or pushy. After nearly 3000 years of brotherly discord we cannot expect to find ourselves 'on the same page' immediately but we can be content that we are at least in the same book! Patience is called for.
Blessings - Tessa
3. Karaites and Ephraimites
The last three or four meetings we (Yair Davidiy on behalf of Brit-Am) have held with different Ephraimites all seem to have mentioned the Kariates or Nehemiah Gordon who represents himself as a Karaite.
This seems to now be the fashion amongst Ephraimites.
In Jewish eyes if Ephraimites prefer Karaites over regular Jews it means that they want nothing to do with the Jews.
This may be fair enough but at least the implications should be clear in advance.
A Midrash says that one who does not acknowledge Oral Tradition was not present at Mount Sinai when Israel received the Torah.
Who are the Karaites?
The Karaites were a group in Early Medieval times who claimed they rejected oral tradition of the Rabbis and were to decide matters according to the simple Biblical text.
In practice instead of abolishing the oral tradition each leader created his own.
The Karaites say that no-one interpretation of the Bible is any better than the other.
They therefore reject the message of the Bible itself that emphasized the need for a centralized authority to decide Biblical matters
since the whole community was responsible for their maintenance (Deuteronomy ch.17).
The Karaites split into two main sections:
(1) The European Karaites who joined the Tartars and became anti-Semites (helped the Nazis etc) and seem to have largely disappeared.
(2) The Middle East Karaites (Syria, Iraq, Egypt) who were once quite numerous but now number a few families in the State of Israel.
Along comes Nehemiah Gorden from the USA who says he is the son of a Rabbi.
He is trying to revive the Karaites.
Many of his supporters seem to be non-Jews including quite a few Ephraimites.
He himself is against the idea that the Lost Ten Tribes are amongst Western Peoples and prefers to think that they are somewhere in Asia.
On the one hand as far as we are concerned the whole idea is quite harmless.
It could even be helpful since it does serve to maintain an interest in Biblical matters.
Even if the teaching is false it is not necessarily any worse than other false teachings.
Who cares if Christian Messianics and the like put tassles on their belts instead of on the edge of a four-cornered garment?
On the contrary if there are any missionaries amongst them such antics will warn otherwise gullible Jews in advance what they are dealing with.
On the other hand we personally cannot help but feel a little disappointed since the Karaite doctrine is a false one and we had hoped Ephraimites would somehow prove to be a little bit different.
In our last meeting at which Karaite doctrine was spoken of we had the impression that the teaching had been given over as if it was Biblical Jewish Doctrine. The person concerned was not aware that the teaching was opposed to Orthodox Rabbinical Judaism! A misleading impression had been given!
Pleased with what you read?
Click Here to make an offering. |
'It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God or the Bible.'
George Washington
Brit-Am is the "still small voice" that contains the truth.
[1-Kings 19:12] AND AFTER THE EARTHQUAKE A FIRE; BUT THE LORD WAS NOT IN THE FIRE: AND AFTER THE FIRE A STILL SMALL VOICE.
 |
 |