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1. Others Reply to TG.
(a) Dennis McGinlay: TG's conclusions are those of the uninformed.
From: "Dennis McGinlay" <dennismcginlay@uwclub.net>
Hi Yair
TG's conclusions are those of the uninformed. Uninformed and unsanctioned by God. Nothing can be discerned or understood without Gos's sanction. TG obviously has nether. God gives understanding to those who love him and ask for that wisdom. It is given, not 'worked up'.
Shalom
Dennis Mcginlay
(b) Bill Rasmussen: TG ... is a master of obfuscation.
Yair, you can tell TG that he is a master of obfuscation. What he could have said in a sentence or two, instead took him a long essay to make his point. I still stand by my position that he is intellectually dishonest and may I add that his comments directed towards you are unwarranted. Just for fun, throw out to him that my mother was Jewish, not that that means anything, at least by his standards. He doesn't have a corner on the truth, nor does he does he have a right to malign people. He needs to take note of the fact that there are many of us who are loyal to Brit Am and stand shoulder to shoulder with Yair. Attacks on Brit Am are basically an attack on all of us who believe in the mission of Brit Am. Amazing that we are still so close to Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur where every Jew should be introspective and repentant, yet TG has started the new year with vitriol. May HaShem have mercy on his soul. Shalom, Bill
Yair, I would like to add something else regarding TG. I find it simply amazing that given the fact that Israel is under siege by Hamas, threatened by Iran, surrounded by a sea of hostile Muslims, having an American President who is dangerous to the well being of Medinat [State of] Yisrael as well as a rise in anti-Semitism, and all TG can do is attack you. Doesn't he have anything better to do? Where are his priorities? Why doesn't he spend his time confronting the enemies of Israel and the Jewish people rather than try and make enemies of his Jewish brothers?
Hine mah Tov umah na'iym
sheveth achiym gam ya-chadh
[Psalms 133:1]
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brethren to dwell together in unity!
Bill Rasmussen
2. TG Replies to Yair (writing on behalf of Brit-Am).
No Yair, I am not on a warpath. Shalom
What I was addressing, and what you evidently didn't comprehend, is the lack of critical thinking in the evaluation of many arguments and evidence brought into the "lost tribes" 'research' by yourself.
Yes, I want privacy and control over who has access to my email address, which most online forums provide, but also the ability to interact with others without censorship or middle man that is you. I never asked for access to your mailing list.
You evaded responding to most of my comments, and focused on the irrelevant consequences of your own making. Ultimately there are mechanisms that guide how research is supported, and you chose the mechanism you chose because others were closed to you for various reasons. This is no fault of mine.
Are you saying you know what "the Bible wants!"? You do realise that the "Bible", i.e. the Torah, is the word of God? So you have appointed yourself the interpreter of the Torah now? And what God wants is for you to sprout your ill-formulated and ill-supported hypothesis on the identity of the 'lost tribes', which of course God never lost :)
Brit-Am, that is you Yair, is not either 'religious' or 'academic'. You quite simply do not follow the sources of Judaism, nor do you have any academic credentials, or are supported by any academic institution. As for your 'scholarly associations', please list them, and I will judge for myself their credentials.
As for being neither Jewish not Gentile, I truly wish that occasionally you think before you write. This is a very Jewish subject. The rest are here because they hope to discover they are "Jewish", i.e. belong to the tribes.
How would you know what I'm talking about. You failed show your understanding by not addressing anything I wrote except the aspect of your financial support over which I have no control.
Do you own a dictionary? You should use it before you use words that you don't know the meaning of. Unless you prefer to slug insults instead of arguments at those that challenge you. The meaning of a reprobate is
1.a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person: a drunken reprobate.
2.a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation.
Is this your decree for me? What do you base it on? Is criticizing you now tantamount to keret?
How about providing verifiable and logical arguments and evidence to support your hypothesis? I can do without the "religious, patriotic, educational, informational, and positive service" ;)
By the way, do you know what 'religious' means? It seems to me you use the word too much and too loosely.
... I see something wrong in providing financial support for 'research' that is insulting of my intelligence.
However, it is your job to be convincing with the 'research' you provide. And, when you are not, banning the critics is not the best way of dealing with criticism.
You are not suppose to provide beliefs, but convincing EVIDENCE. Beliefs are falsifiable, as I wrote earlier. This, is a major difference between orthodox Jews and orthodox Christians. We do not believe in God, because we have evidence, while the Christians are asked to believe in God without any evidence whats so ever.
Judaism is a debating society. If you are not prepared to debate, you are not part of Judaism.
What are "Biblical beliefs" and "Biblical agenda"?
Re The Staffordhsire Hoard.
The national language of the Eastern Roman Empire where Christian centres were located was Greek. The official languages of Rome, the city, were Latin and Greek. When Rome collapsed, the Latin very quickly became forgotten. The Vugar from vulgus "the common people". Almost every province had its own version, which is why the Vulgate translation was such a challenge, and why other translations were continuously made, until vernacular translations followed.
However, how did a Scythian goldsmith learn to write Latin? And the dating of the hoard suggests a time when there were scarcely ANY Christians in Northern Europe, never mind Christian converts from the high Roman society that knew Latin. Consequently the inescapable conclusion is that the inscription was written by someone that knew Latin, and the Torah. I can suggest that you read here http://standingonshoulders.net/
2009/05/31/where-did-the-term-old-testament-and
-new-testament-come-from/.
Only very few people could at that time translate from Lashon Kodesh [The Holy Tongue]to Latin, indeed the Septuagint, the Greek translation, was in predominant use. The transmission of the Vulgate was via the monastic copyists, and not sundry Christian travellers or even bishops. This is because Jerome, a monk, went to EY [Land of Israel] to do his translation, and not to Rome. The job of the priest and bishops was to convert the pegans and not to interpret the scriptures as Jerome did in "His patristic commentaries [which] align closely with Jewish tradition, and he indulges in allegorical and mystical subtleties" (Wikipedia)
Now you will be interested to know that observant Jewish community had been in Rome, the city, for hundreds of years, and was in fact quatralingual, using Lashon Kodesh in liturgy, Aramit in learning, Greek as a trade conversational and Latin as the official languages. Moreover, several large cities in the Late Roman Empire proper (Italia) had significant Jewish communities that traded widely, including in Germania, and including in amulets and charms. Trading means actually going on trading expeditions to meet the customers. And, the proportion of learned men (rabbis) in these communities was quite high because they had to learn due to lack of printed books. So no fiction as you can see. And, all this is supported by academic research such as ancient Jewish gravestones that have inscriptions in two or three languages.
The crucifixes were not found in the condition that would suggest their use as Christian symbols, so forget that they belonged to Christians. They were Saxon war booty, and probably second hand because few Christians owning such items ventured so far north in that time (c.7th CE).
Yair, the problem is though that your hypothesis STANDS on 'possibilities' that are vague in the extreme, and are not supported by existing research, which by the way you fail to address.
Yair, you are not playing by the rules most of the public expects. No one with even a modicum of education is going to accept your 'take it or leave it' beliefs that are unsupported by factual evidence, credible sources and logical arguments.
In not too distant future I hope to address your book The Tribes in detail, so I will leave it here for now. And, it will be done in an open public forum and not via yourself and the Brit-Am website..
Why do you prefer to use words in your replies that are so antagonistic and insulting? I had not once insulted anyone or invited conflict. All I want to see is an open forum where critical discussion can take place. Yes, criticism is conflicting, but only in the challenging of ideas, not in attacking the individuals in the way I was attacked? Why do you choose to attack me instead of addressing the concepts and ideas I present? And, why do you support others in doing so?
Shalom
TG
3. Yair (Brit-Am) Replies to TG:
Brit-Am is guided by the Torah in its wider sense i.e. including all the Tanaach and in no way contrary to the Sages.
Our interpretations are accurate, they are open, and clarified..
We show the sources, quote the words, give the reasoning.
Concerning the Ten Tribes, Brit-Am has a good track record and is correct.
They who disagree are invited to say why.
You have not done so.
You do not relate to any our evidence.
What, for instance, about our 122 Brit-Am Biblical Proofs?
http://www.britam.org/ListofProofs.html
Do you disagree with them?
If so, why?
If you do not disagree, what are you talking about?
You came to us. We did not go to you.
You claim we are wrong but refrain from specifying where and how.
Is there any Rabbinical Authority that has said our interpretations of Biblical and/or Rabbinical Sources are not correct?
You will not find any.
What about academic sources concerning our other proofs?
Here you will find some but why are you not adducing them instead of speaking in general terms?
We welcome debates and discussion on these matters.
They help us refine and perfect our presentations. They show our weak spots and emphasize our strong ones.
If here and there we are mistaken we learn about it.
The whole process provides some fire and action for our readership.
Bring it on.
Where is the opposition?
You may have a problem with us but seem unable to properly enunciate it.
You complain about our abrasive replies to you as well as those of our correspondents.
Your attitude however is insulting. It is condescending without showing justification for condescension.
You have a problem. We do not.
If you cannot take it, do not dish it out!
You say you are going to write something against our work The Tribes?
http://britam.org/the-Tribes.html
Go ahead.
So far, we have not seen anything of substance in any of your criticisms of us.
Neither have we seen you relate to one single proof or piece of evidence of ours.
You question our understanding of Judaism?
To me Judaism means the Bible in the light of Rabbinical Explanations. Maimonides says the same (So does everyone else!).
Do you disagree with Maimonides?