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Hebrew Nations
http://www.britam.org/BAPoetry5.html#Nations
Israel is in the center
Tribes are in the West
Joseph is blest
All World gates enter
The very best.
In the far north
Warriors spring forth.
Ends of the earth
Sweden and Denmark
Prove their worth.
To Brit-Am they hark.
Finland and Norway
Canada and the USA
Have their say.
Ireland and Australia
No loss nor failure
South Africa as well
New Zealand is swell.
Britain and Iceland
Belgium and Holland
Numerous as sea-sand
And as stars of sky
To HaShem they cry
Switzerland repents
And her sin laments.
All these do contain
Lost Hebrew Seed.
Virtue yet to attain
Deep Spiritual Need
Torah still to gain.
Zion is their desire
Souls will be on fire.
With Judah to unite
Heathens to fight.
Israel is in the center - Gemara [Talmud] to Mishna in Sanhedrin 37a R. Aha Haninah said: Mikra states, Thy navel is like a round goblet ['aggan ha-Sahar] wherein no mingled wine is wanting. 'Thy navel" that is the Sanhedrin. Why was it called 'navel'? Because it sat at the navel-point of the world. [Why] 'aggan?10 " Because it protects [meggin] the whole world. - so it is that the Temple was at the centre of the World"
Tribes are in the West - you have yet to prove this
Joseph is blest (blessed) - every tribe was blessed
All World gates enter
The very best. - nonsensical
In the far north
Warriors spring forth. - you mean the Vikings? They were only 'springing' between the late eighth to the early eleventh century, and were highly over-rated due to Christian impressions of them.
Ends of the earth
Sweden and Denmark
Prove their worth. - really? Sweden is not "end of the Earth", even in European mainland Norway has that claim, and Denmark is of course not even close to that claim. What worth do they prove?
To Brit-Am they hark. - so there would be lots of Swedes and Danes making contributions to you?
Finland and Norway
Canada and the USA
Have their say. - Ah, here we are! Got many contributors from Finland and Norway?
Ireland and Australia
No loss nor failure
South Africa as well
New Zealand is swell. - Well, Ireland is touted as one of the PIGS by Italy, though I would say Iceland could just as well be inserted. South Africa is certainly a failure...or will be soon. New Zealand...er, you have never lived in NZ, have you?
Britain and Iceland
Belgium and Holland
Numerous as sea-sand - sea here is a superfluous word, but Icelanders are certainly very demographically limited and the Dutch also. And Belgians?
And as stars of sky
To HaShem they cry - they pray to HaShem? Seems to me they are still idol worshipers.
Switzerland repents
And her sin laments. - this is for hiding all the Nazi gold, or being a tax heaven for Americans? I hadn't heard that the Swiss 'repented' :)
All these do contain
Lost Hebrew Seed. - so Yair says...but what about the rest?
Virtue yet to attain
Deep Spiritual Need
Torah still to gain. - its not far, its near...
Zion is their desire - really?
Souls will be on fire.
With Judah to unite
Heathens to fight. - maybe you should rename the new journal The New Crusader? It goes to the core of your misunderstanding of Torah. We are not about fighting heathen.
You know Yair that poetry is a difficult form of literature. Some poets spend months on a single poem that barely fills a page. And this is people with a talent. And, they have friends and editors to show their output to who can reflect on the verses, and perhaps suggest improvement of offer constructive criticism. Of course you object to any criticism what's so ever...
TG
TG wrote:
Yair, you are so disingenuous!
I wrote the response months ago, but you clearly don't get much response from anyone else, so opt to 'flog a dead horse'!
Brit-Am Answers:
We did not intend to flog you.
We also do not really consider you a dead horse.
The Talmud (that you like to quote from) says, One should not denigrate oneself.
So why do you do it?
As for yourself: We do not really need a volunteer to serve as our punching bag
but you keep insisting.
TG wrote:
Who are these "few of our best supporters"? Probably two or three people as confused and ignorant as you are.
Do you know what the Talmud is? I seem to doubt it since you hardly ever, EVER quote from it, but I suggest you look up what Rab Yehuda ben Rab Shmuel bar Shilat said about these verses in Proverbs in Shabbat 30b
TG quotes from Brit-Am:
Brit-Am Reply:
TG quotes the Talmud saying the Temple site is at the center of the World. Fair enough, it is. Last I heard the Temple Site is in Jerusalem in the Land of Israel which is what we intended.
TG comments:
What *you" intended?! Maybe HaShem intended?
Yet again you prove that you have 0 analytical thought capability. If Israel is at the centre, then the position of the tribes around it is going to be same as before exile, i.e. around it. Therefore the 'lost' tribes are not JUST in the West, but all around Israel. Think about it.
However, the Talmud have a lot more to say about this that you are seemingly ignorant of.
Brit-Am Replies:
The Tribes were not around the Temple. The Temple was in Judah in the south.
Most Tribes were to the North. The Tribes were around the Mishcan (Tabernacle)
in the Wilderness.
In our book "The Tribes" we show how today the relative positioning of the Ten
Tribes to each other is similar to that they once had both in the Wilderness
around the Tabernacle and when they were in the Land of Israel. Their
positioning in regards to Judah (the present-day Land of Israel) is also similar
to some degree.
TG quotes from Brit-Am:
We have proven that the Lost ten Tribes are amongst Western Nations. Anyone who disagrees should bring proofs of their own and not simply express disagreement.
Every Tribes blest. Joseph was blessed more than the other Tribes.
TG says:
You just want me to do your work for you and spoon-feed you the information. Not going to happen. I don't have to prove anything to you.
Brit-Am Replies:
Yes you do have to prove what you say, the same as we do.
You argue with us, say we are wrong. We bring proofs and evidence saying that
concerning the Ten Tribes we are right. If you do not wish to relate to our
argumentation, do not do so. You cannot however tell us we are wrong without
saying why.
TG quotes from Brit-Am:
..... during the Thirty Years War
(1618-1648) Swedish armies were quite prominent in Germany.
TG says:
More cut-and-pasting lol
Brit-Am says:
There is hardly any cut and pasting here, but what if there was? Either it is
right or it is not.
TG says:
No, the Vikings did not emerge from Scandinavia, and they did not terrorize Ireland, Scotland, Wales, England, and other places...and by the way the House of Rurik from which begins the formation of the Rus and Russian Empire was founded by Swedes, but did not conquer the Russian tribes since there were no 'Russian' tribes at the time, and the Slav tribes were ranging from the Oder in the West to the Urals in the East and from the Baltic in the North to the Dnepr in the South. Viking simply means 'expeditionary' and vikingr means a participant in one. In those days there was no Scandinavia of course. Norman is just another name for the people who came from the North, and strictly speaking not synonymous with Vikings which describes a type of activity (expeditionary) not a region of origin. Had you understood this, you would never make such an outlandish claim that "Vikings conquered England, Sicily, and southern Italy". And of course since Swedes, Danes and Norwegians. Hardly any 'scandinavians' participated in the initial crusades because they were not really Christian until early 13th century despite introduction of that religion in the 11th century...and there was the actual distance.
Normandy is in the North of France, not West.
Brit-Am says:
You are using semantics to obscure the facts. Your history is wrong.
Scandinavia is a geographic term. Viking is a historical one. The people known
to historians as Vikings emerged from the area known in geography as
Scandinavia. Slavic Tribes that were ancestral to the Russian peoples were
conquered and amalgamated by the Viking-associated Rus. Normans from England and
from Normandy were prominent in the Crusades. Normandy is both in the north and
west of France. At that time the term "France" applied more to the northern
region. The Normans who settled in Normandy were Vikings from Norway and
Denmark.
The whole point of what we were discussing is the question of warriors emerging
from Scandinavia. Whether one refers to them as Vikings or anything else is not
really pertinent to the discussion.
TG quotes from Brit-Am and comments:
# Sweden conquered approximately half of the Holy Roman states.#
Are you so arrogant as to even ignore such mundane sources of information as Wikipedia?
Brit-Am Replies:
That was a quote from Wikipedia.
Go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden
Scroll down to the heading:
Swedish Empire
The second paragraph down begins with the sentence:
# During the Thirty Years' War, Sweden
conquered approximately half of the Holy Roman states. #
It continues:
# Gustav Adolphus
planned to become the new Holy Roman Emperor, ruling over a united Scandinavia
and the Holy Roman states, but he died at the Battle of
Lozen
in 1632. After the Battle of
Nedlingen, Sweden's only
significant military defeat of the war, pro-Swedish sentiment among the German
states faded. These German provinces excluded themselves from Swedish power one
by one, leaving Sweden with only a few northern German territories: Swedish
Pomerania,
Bremen-Verden
and Wismar.
The Swedish armies may have destroyed up to 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and
1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[32].
In the middle of the 17th century Sweden was the third largest country in Europe
by land area, only surpassed by Russia and Spain. Sweden reached its largest
territorial extent under the rule of Charles X after the treaty of
Roskilde
in 1658.[33][34] #
TG said:
The Swedish Empire at its zenith in 1658 barely had a toe-hold in continental Europe aside from the current Baltic republics territories. Do you even know where the Holy Roman Empire was?
Brit-Am Replies:
Your facts are wrong. See the quote above.
During the Thirty Years War and afterwards Swedish troops rampaged throughout
Germany that comprised much of what was then left of the Holy Roman Empire.
Sweden ruled over Finland, and the Baltic area. Sweden also invaded Poland,
Lithuania, and Russia.
I repeat the point of the argument here is whether or not warriors of world
renown emerged from Scandinavia during and after the Viking Era. The history of Sweden shows
that they did. Sweden was a world power. Swedish armies fought against and defeated the forces
of Continental Europe. Point made.
TG said:
And where do you get the idea that Haza"l [the Sages] was talking about the European Continental Landmass?!
TG quotes from Brit-Am and comments:
"Large numbers" of Scandinavians do not support Brit-Am....If they knew what they should do they would indeed support us instead.
do, or would? are you prophesying now? :)
Brit-Am Replies:
We work on behalf of the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel. This includes a significant
portion of the populations of Scandinavia. We believe that in some way we are of
service to them and we are in need of funding. They have funds that they give out to our mutual
enemies. They should help us and people like us instead. What is the problem with what we were saying?
TG quotes from Brit-Am and comments:Brit-Am Replies:
South Africa for a long period was also blessed until the control of British and Boers was terminated.
Blessed? If not for the gold and diamonds, it would have been a total drain on the British Empire like its other colonies. Look at it now.
New Zealand statistically may not be in the best of shape but for a good while it was considered a place whose inhabitants were well of in terms of agricultural produce, raw materials, health standards, citizens rights, etc.
Do you even know anything about NZ?
Brit-Am Replies:
If you think we are lacking in our knowledge of NZ go ahead and enlighten us.
Evidently you do not think much of New Zealand?
TG quotes from Brit-Am and comments:
There are 317,000 people in Iceland, 16, 500, 000 in the Netherlands (of whom ca.80% are ethnic Dutch), 10.7 million in Belgium.
By way of comparison there are an estimated 12 to 14 million Jews in the world today.
What was your point about demography?
Look up Haza"l. Belgians are of the same genetic stock as the rest of the migrant Europeans, and that includes Slavs and even some Turks.
Our poem was just that, a poem....
I get annoyed by how you refer to yourself in the plural...
Brit-Am Replies:
As we have said before. If only because it annoys types like yourself this
practice of ours has its advantages.
TG quotes from Brit-Am and comments:
....TG mentions our inadequacy in the handling of Poetry.Brit-Am Replies:
Our poems are our own. Their purpose is to present our teachings in a format that is interesting and entertaining.
They do not have to be exemplary.
do you pray from a kosher siddur [Jewish Prayer Book]?
Have you seen the poems there?
Yes, when you write a poem that mentions Israel it has to be exemplary, though I note that your poems do mention HaShem...where as Europeans 'cry' largely to the EU Parliament now, and sometimes still to [the Christian Messiah]:)
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