"Brit-Am Now"-584

"Brit-Am Now"-584
Contents:
1. Question on the Tribe of Simeon
2. Non-European Origins of Irishmen Not Acceptable to Conventional Academia?
3. They Were All Your Ancestors?
 
1. Question on the Tribe of Simeon


Yair,
 
I can't think of anyone more qualified to answer
this question.
 
When the Ten Tribes were deported ....
did this include Simeon or not?
 
Regards,
 
George
 
Reply:
The Exile of the Ten Tribes included the Tribe of Simeon. Counting Ephraim and Manasseh (the Tribes of Joseph)
as separate entities there were actually thirteen tribes. Ten were exiled. Three tribes remained and these were
Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and all three together in Scripture are encompassed by the term "Yehudah" (Judah).
Originally Judah and Benjamin had remained in the south with Levi scattered throughout all the Tribes but when Jeroboam
changed the religion the whole Tribe of Levi moved southward (2-Chronicles 11:14) and they were joined by other members of northern kingdom
who remained faithful to the God of Israel.(2-Chronicles 11:16).
 
The opinion exists that amongst the "Jews" of today there exists at least a small minority of all the tribes
(Tosafot, Arachin,  32;a) although Nachmanides (Sager HaGeulah p.273) emphasized that (in his opinion)
even these were dominated by Ephraim and Manasseh.
Nachamnides quoted the Midrash Seder Olam that in the time of Ezra the number of they who returned from Babylon was given
as 42,360 (Ezra 2:64) whereas the detailed family lists (all of which pertain  to Judah, Benjamin, and Levi)
only 30,000 are mentioned (actually Ezra 29,000 Nehemiah 32,000) the rest being the mixed remnants from
the Ten Tribes who had remained with Judah. These remnants however were subservient to Judah
and considered as part of Judah since their individual tribal expression was meant to be fulfilled
with the rest of the Ten Tribes in exile.
 
See our articles on The Completeness of the Exile
http://www.britam.org/CompleteExile.html
and our translation of Nachmanides (1194-1270  CE)
on this subject
http://britam.org/ShortRETURN.htm (shortened version)
http://britam.org/RETURN.htm (full-length translation of the relevant passages).
 
Regarding Simeon:
See our book "The Tribes"
http://britam.org/the-Tribes.html
The Tribe of Simeon was counted amongst the Lost Ten Tribes even though the other Tribes were to the north of Judah whereas Simeon was in the southern region. Simeon is spoken of as having shared the fate of the Lost Ten Tribes who were exiled and is counted amongst them:
 
"And so he [King Josiah of Judah] did in the cities of Manasseh, and Ephraim, and Simeon, even unto Naphtali, with their ruins [Hebrew: "Charvotayhem" wrongly translated as "mattocks" in the King James] round about" (2-Chronicles 34:6).
From this we see that the cities of Simeon were in ruins like the cities of all the other tribes.
 
Before the Exile of the Ten Tribes, the Northern Kingdom of Israel had had a degree of sovereignty over part of the area south of Judah meaning the territory of Simeon. There are hints in the Bible concerning this as well as archaeological evidence: In Kuntillet Ajrud much to the south of Judah in the Tribal Region of Simeon an inscription and illustration from Ancient Israelite times has been found. It depicts and mentions "Yahwah of Samaria and his Asherah". The inscription uses the dialect of Northern Israel and pottery found in the area has characteristics of the Northern Kingdom. Samaria was one of the capitals of Northern Israel and possibly its most important city. "Samaria" is a term applied to the Northern Kingdom of Israel in general in the same way as "Jerusalem" is sometimes used to represent all of Judah. The inscription therefore indicates Northern Israelite religious practices in the Simeon area and political subservience to  "Israel" in the north.
 
THE EXILE OF SIMEON
AMONGST THE TEN TRIBES
The Bible relates that the Assyrians after having attacked, conquered, destroyed and exiled all of the northern Lost Tribes also attacked the territory of Judah:
 
"Sennacherib king of Assyria come up against all the fenced cities of Judah and took them" (2-Kings 18:13).
            In an inscription Sennacherib speaks of capturing forty-six fenced cities and of carrying away to Assyria 200,150 people from the region of Judah. Jewish tradition relates that due to Sennacherib capturing "all the fenced cities" a large portion of the Kingdom of "Judah" including most of Simeon also went into the Assyrian exile. These were lost together with the northern Ten Tribes of Israel. . The sources emphasize that those lost to Judah encompassed the overwhelming majority of the people of Simeon. Most of Simeon indeed were exiled and are to be counted as amongst the Lost Ten Tribes.  This is confirmed by early Medieval Rabbinical Tradition (see M. GASTER, translator of "The Chronicles of Jerahmiel, ca. 1100 1150 c.e.," New York 1971).
 
The Midrash (Seder Olam) says that all of Simeon was taken away in Assyrian times by the King of "Cush". "Cush" could mean Ethiopia or another part of Africa but the name was also applied to a region of Elam in Persia as well as to the area east of the Caspian Sea. This last possibility is the one accepted by us in accordance with other evidence. From the regions of Iran and Central Asia elements from Simeon moved westward together with the rest of the Tribes of Israel. While still in the Land of Israel Simeon had been located on both the west and eastern sides of the River Jordan.
 
THE EXILE OF SIMEON FROM
EAST OF THE JORDAN
At the beginning Simeon had been largely encompassed by Judah (Joshua 19:1, 9 Judges 3:1). King Saul tried to separate Simeon out of Judah. Later in the time of King Hezekiah (probably in the first two years of his reign) a portion of Simeon moved east of the Jordan and conquered lands of the Hamites and of the Edomites and settled there:
[1-Chronicles 4:38] THESE MENTIONED BY THEIR NAMES WERE PRINCES IN THEIR FAMILIES: AND THE HOUSE OF THEIR FATHERS INCREASED GREATLY.
 [1-Chronicles 4:39] AND THEY WENT TO THE ENTRANCE OF GEDOR, EVEN UNTO THE EAST SIDE OF THE VALLEY, TO SEEK PASTURE FOR THEIR FLOCKS.
"Gedor" has been identified as a region south of Petra east of the Jordan called "Koodur" by the Arabs. Another opinion says that Gedor is an area of South Sinai1
 [1-Chronicles 4:40] AND THEY FOUND FAT PASTURE AND GOOD, AND THE LAND WAS WIDE, AND QUIET, AND PEACEABLE; FOR THEY OF HAM HAD DWELT THERE OF OLD.
 [1-Chronicles 4:41- AND THESE WRITTEN BY NAME CAME IN THE DAYS OF HEZEKIAH KING OF JUDAH, AND SMOTE THEIR TENTS, AND THE HABITATIONS [Hebrew: "Maunim"] THAT WERE FOUND THERE, AND DESTROYED THEM UTTERLY UNTO THIS DAY, AND DWELT IN THEIR ROOMS: BECAUSE THERE WAS PASTURE THERE FOR THEIR FLOCKS.
"HABITATIONS [Hebrew: "Maunim"]": This should be translated as "Maonites" who were an Arab people (Judges 10:12) and traditional enemies of Israel.
  [1-Chronicles 4:42] AND SOME OF THEM, EVEN OF THE SONS OF SIMEON, FIVE HUNDRED MEN, WENT TO MOUNT   SEIR, HAVING FOR THEIR CAPTAINS PELATIAH, AND NEARIAH, AND REPHAIAH, AND UZZIEL, THE SONS OF ISHI.
[1-Chronicles 4:43] AND THEY SMOTE THE REST OF THE AMALEKITES THAT WERE ESCAPED, AND DWELT THERE UNTO THIS DAY.
The Book of Chronicles in the verses above, in effect tells us that there were two major movements of Simeon. One movement was to the Plains of Gedor to the south or to east of the Jordan. The second movement was initiated by 500 men under the sons of Ishi. Regarding the first movement we must assume that they too were exiled alongside of all the Israelites east of the Jordan.
The second movement was a continuation of the first. It involved "THE SONS OF ISHI":  According to the Talmud (Baba Batra 123, 300-500 CE) "the sons of Ishi" were descended from Ishi who is listed later (1-Chronicles 5:23-26) amongst the Princes of half Manasseh east of the Jordan who were taken into Exile by the Assyrians. The men of Simeon led by the sons of Ishi went northward to settle. They had placed themselves under the leadership of a Princely Family of the half-tribe of Manasseh. The father of this family was listed amongst the Princes of Manasseh who in the exile of the Northern Israelites were taken to "HALAH, AND HABOR, AND HARA, AND TO THE RIVER GOZAN" [1-Chronicles 5:26].  Rabbinical Tradition linked this movement of Manasseh-led Simeonites to the foundation of the Khazar nation.
 
Simeon amongst the Khazars
The Bible (1-Chronicles 4:42-43) tells us how five hundred men from Simeon under the leadership of the Sons of Ishi from half-Manasseh (Machir) went to Mount Seir, smote the Amalekites, and took possession of it. Mount Seir is conventionally considered to have been east of the Jordan River to the southeast of Judah in the Land of Edom. Nevertheless, there was another area in the far north in the region of Armenia which was also the domain of Edom and of Amalekites (Josiphon). Here too there was a region known as "Seir". It was in this area that a portion of the Lost Ten tribes were resettled after being exiled by the Assyrians.
They gave rise to the Khazars.
 
We find Simeon along with half-Manasseh and other Israelites amongst the Khazars.  We also find Simeon amongst the Welsh and Irish, the Lombards, as a sub-tribe amongst the Anglo-Saxons and Northerners, and as the Samnites who for a while were in Central Italy.
We also find Simeon  amongst present-day Jews as a minority element but more prominent than most minority contingents from the rest of the Ten Tribes representative fractions of whom are also present.
 
2. Non-European Origins of Irishmen Not Acceptable to Conventional Academia?
There follow Extracts from a Discussion in  which results showing Middle East Ancestry for many Irishmen
are not accepted since the results contradict conventional opinion.
Apart from the question as to whether the research is question is correct
what interests us is the attitude of those who otherwise would be expected to accept it:
 
<http://dienekes.blogspot.com/>http://dienekes.blogspot.com/
Update
 
"There is a discussion in Majority Rights blog which raises some objections to my comments. Let's address them one at a time:
(2. Dienekes labelling of certain DNAP results as problems is, in my opinion, not justified without further evidence. Given that Middle Eastern in the Irish does NOT imply any sort of direct admixture of Middle Easterners (at least, as they exist today) into the Irish genepool, how it is known a priori that this is a problem?
 
It is certainly a problem to claim that the Irish have more MIDEAS [Middle East] affiliation than the Turks. It goes against geography, history, physical anthropology and common sense. Until a satisfactory explanation for this unexpected result is offered, we are justified to view it as a bug of the test.
<http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/1260/>
I see the major points as being that the tests are relative and comparative, rather than absolute, and that the names given to genetic ancestral categories do not exactly correlate with the specific ethnic/racial groups they are named after.  For example, some people seem to be disturbed that tested Irish were found to have a certain low percentage of Middle Eastern and South Asian affiliations.
 
Assuming these are above statistical significance, then, how can that be?? after all, the Irish are NW Europeans with no history of being invaded by Arabs or South Asians. But, thats the point, the data are NOT saying that there must be direct descent from those particular groups.  Instead what the data simply show is that the predominant distinctive genetic (ancestral) components in Middle Easterners and South Asians are also found as minor components in the gene-pool of the Irish.  Why is not known, but it does not logically require direct descent from one group into another - simply a sharing of allele frequencies.
 
That is, admittedly, not genealogy.  But as Ive said, these are not really genealogy tests.  Rather, they are tests of relative racial/genetic affiliation.  The data, and in particular the minority affiliations, are NOT randomly scattered among individuals and groups - as they would be if they had no relevance. They are structured in a manner consistent with broad racial clines and historical trends (eg, elevated Middle Eastern in Ashkenazim) and they correlate with phenotype, too.
 
(2. Dienekes labelling of certain DNAP results as problems is, in my opinion, not justified without further evidence.  Given that Middle Eastern in the Irish does NOT imply any sort of direct admixture of Middle Easterners (at least, as they exist today) into the Irish genepool, how it is known a priori that this is a problem?  The data mean, ultimately, that what is the predominant genetic component in Middle Easterners is, for whatever reason, a minor genetic component of the Irish.  Given a common recent ancestry for all Caucasians after the split from the Asians, it is not so surprising that such overlap may exist.  The meaning of it remains to be determined. The same goes with Native American in Greeks or South Asian in Iberians.  The only problem is taking the labels literally. Furthermore, in many cases, the sample sizes are too small to say with certainty that there really is a problem.  Who were the Iberians tested?  A family of gypsies?  Who knows?
 
One must remember the tests are relative and comparative.  It is not the presence of ME in Irish that is so important, but why this component is larger or lesser in the Irish than in other Caucasian groups.
 
3. They Were All Your Ancestors?
From Another List:
"I came across the following quote in a book entitled THE TIES THAT BOUND: PEASANT FAMILIES IN MEDIEVAL ENGLAND by Barbara Hanawalt.
   On page 81 she writes: "Since no routine parish register was kept, the extent of intermarriage among kin cannot be established, but a statistical model based on an individual and starting at the Norman conquest(1066) shows considerable overlap:
   Around the discovery of America, our individual has more than 60,000 distinct ancestors. Some 95 percent of theslots in the family tree at this level are still filled by different people.  But as far back as the time of Wycliffe and the Peasant's Revolt, at the twentieth generation the number of distinct ancestors has grown beyond 600,000 and nearly a third of the slots in the tree are filled by duplicate people.  Just before the Black death nearly 30 percent of the 3,650,000 inhabitants of England turned up as ancestors.  (By the time of King John) 80 percent of the population are ancestors of our single individual."
Hanawalt is quoting in this passage STATISTICAL STUDIES OF HISTORICAL SOCIAL STRUCTURE (New York, 1978) p.159 by Kenneth W. Wachter, with Eugene Hammel and Peter Laslett.
 
MaryJo


 God willing  the work of  Brit-Am will continue and we will conduct it as long and as well as we can.
Your  offerings  and purchases enable us to work for our peoples and for you.
Please help us to keep going by sending us an offering.
Order  Brit-Am publications. They are worth acquiring and reading and giving to others
who may be interested. The information is important, worth knowing, and interesting.
Brit-Am is on your side. Brit-Am represents you.
Helping Brit-Am means doing good to yourselves and others as well as to us.
"And I will bless them that bless you" (Genesis 12:15).
 
Books offered by Brit-Am:
All prices include postage by  air-mail.
 
"THE TRIBES. The Israelite Origins of Western Peoples" (3rd edition)
Book is a Classic, ca 592 pages including 48 maps and 44 illustrations.
Contains vital information in a highly readable text.  Special introductory price only $30.
 
Also  AVAILABLE :
"Origin. You too are from Israel! You too are the People"
[A Summary of Most of the Major Biblical and Historical Research
Until Now]
"Biblical Truth. The Lost Ten Tribes in the West "
"Ephraim. The Gentile Children of Israel"
"Joseph. The Israelite Destiny of America",
PLUS a sample issue of our
 magazine BRIT-AM Truth
Any two  of  the above four books plus an issue of the magazine for $30
All four books plus an issue of the magazine for $50
 
Magazine "Brit-Am Truth" usual price $15 one issue
5 issues $40
12 issues $80
20 issues for $120
The prices include postage by  air-mail.
 
Upon subscribing (for five issues or more) you will receive an official membership certificate
with the Brit-Am symbol in colors of  red,  white, and blue.
Send a personal check to the address below:
 
Yair Davidiy
POB 595
Jerusalem 91004
Israel
 
http://www.britam.org
http://www.geocities.com/hiberi
"And I will bless them that bless you" (Genesis 12:15).
 
PayPal
http://www.britam.org/order.html
http://www.britam.org/order.html
NOW INDEX