"Brit-Am Now"-720
Contents:
1. Leah Todd: Ashira "anti-Ephraim"
2. Paula: It is adverse to Ephraim?
3. Ashira: No criticism of Brit Am
1. Leah Todd: Ashira "anti-Ephraim"
Subject: Reply to The Case of Ashirah," Brit-Am Now"-719
Dear Mr. Davidiy,
I went to the shuvoo web site and read the articles under THE CHILDREN OF EPHRAIM.
The 'Joe':Jew Dilemma
by Ashirah Yosefah
Claiming Israelite descent
by Ashirah Yosefah
I found them very anti-Ephraim. What she is teaching does seam to go against what Brit-Am is trying to do.
She claims that the evidence that those claiming Israelite decent is not conclusive. The point that she makes is: anyone claiming to be part of Ephraim really has no proof and that it doesn't matter whether you believe your a descendent of the lost tribes or not.
Is this what Brit-Am stands for? If it is then why are you wasting so much time and resources researching the lost tribes? According to Ashira's replacement theology the Jews are now the only Israel that exists. If this is not what she is saying in her articles then I must have misunderstood her and I don't think that I did. She made herself quite clear concerning her opinion of those who claim they are descendents of the lost tribes.
The purpose of the shuvoo web site seams to be to clarify for us uneducated lost descendents that we are not going to be part of Israel unless we uphold the Noachide laws or convert to Judaism. If we want to keep the Torah and return to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob then we can just forget it.
I do not believe that the work of Brit-Am is a waste of time but apparently Ashira does. What is the point of knowing you are a descendent of the lost tribes if it doesn't matter? Why is it important for this research to continue? Why should I support Brit-Am? Is Brit-Am evidence "not conclusive"?
I would appreciate your answers.
Shalom,
Leah
Brit-Am Reply: We are not about to explain or justify the position of Ashira.
See our note below.
From the point of view of the Jewish Religion however
and technically being liable for the death penalty for breaking Sabbath etc
being a descendant of the Lost Ten Tribes does not make one
Jewish.
Knowledge is important.
In our age it is a duty to acquire this knowledge and internalize it and it involves obligations:
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesJoseph.html#DUTIES
2. Paula: It is adverse to Ephraim?
Mr. Davidiy,
In this case I will have to respectfully disagree.
You said:
"#4. The Case of Ashirah
Some of the opinions and formulations are not necessarily to our liking
but that is unavoidable and we found nothing that should be considered
adverse to us."
In my opinion she says several offensive things. In short that Ephraim is lost (no longer), that we are too ignorant to understand what we read in Tanach, that it doesn't matter if we are descendants of Israel because the only way to be "ammi" again is through the House of Judah.
This might not be adverse to Brit-Am but it is to Ephraim.
We can however agree on the point that reunification should not be our goal at this time.
Thanks
Paula
Zecharia 10
(7. And they of Ephraim shall be like a mighty man, and their heart shall rejoice as through wine; and their children shall see it, and be glad; their heart shall rejoice in the Lord.
(8. I will whistle for them, and gather them; for I have redeemed them; and they shall increase as they have increased before.
(9. And I will sow them among the peoples; and they shall remember me in far countries; and they shall live with their children, and shall return.
(10. And I will bring them back also from the land of Egypt, and gather them from Assyria; and I will bring them into the land of Gilead and Lebanon; till there is no room for them.
(11. And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall strike the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up; and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the scepter of Egypt shall depart away.
(12. And I will strengthen them in the Lord; and they shall walk in his name, says the Lord.
Brit-Am Reply: What we answered to no.1 above also applies here.
Your statement should be reformulated:
It doesn't matter as far as being obligated by the Law of Moses at present if we are descendants of Israel because the only way to be "ammi" [my People] again is through the House of Judah.
it does however matter for the future and concerning Brit-Am Ephraimite obligations at present.
This might not be adverse to Brit-Am but it is to Ephraim
if Ephraim considers itself something distinct from Brit-Am.
If Ephraim however realizes that the solution may lie through
the pathway of Brit-Am then there is no conflict.
3. Ashira: No criticism of Brit Am
From: Ashirah <ashirah@shuvoo.com>
Subject: RE: www.shuvoo.com Claiming Israelite Descent
Hi Yair ... There is no criticism of you or Brit Am in this
article and the statements I make as to the position of Orthodox Judaism on
various issuances are statements that you yourself have made in your own
postings.
Have a read ...
http://www.shuvoo.com/articles/claiming-israelite-descent.php
By the way ... I also criticize my own former attitudes and arrogance in
this article....
Shuvoo
Ashirah Yosefah
www.shuvoo.com
ashirah@shuvoo.com
Jerusalem, Israel
The Brit-Am Reply
I have not read all the articles by Ashirah due to pressure of time but hope to do so.
Basically from what I read Ashirah takes an Orthodox Jewish approach similar to what we wrote
in:
The Two House Doctrine and Ephraimites
http://britam.org/TwoHouse.html
Ashirah however expresses herself a little more sharply than we did
and uses expression that we would not.
Ashirah is writing from a strictly Orthodox Jewish perspective whereas
Brit-Am writes from Brit-Am Research Reality presented in alignment
with Jewish Law as explained below.
I still see nothing offensive in what was written by Ashirah.
Nevertheless,
It is worth taking this opportunity to clarify a few points:
(1) Ashirah is talking from the point of view of someone who converts to Judaism
or wishes to do so or wants to be recognized by the Jewish authorities as "Jewish"
(or its equivalent) without converting.
Very few of you are in such a situation and if you are the Brit-Am point of view is not liable
to influence you one way or other.
(2) The Israeli Rabbinical Orthodox Position:
a. On an individual level It does not matter if one is descended
from Jews or from Israelites and can definitely prove it -though nobody can really
do so. Once the ancestors for several generations have adopted
a non-Jewish religion then their descendants must undergo a full conversion.
Ben Zion Netanyahu (the father of the former Israeli PM) wrote books on
the Marranos of Spain that discuss in detail the historical and philosophical background
for such an attitude.
The reasons and justifications are complicated.
We have discussed this briefly elsewhere and may do so again.
b. On the group level.
The Rabbis would be prepared to consider claims to Israelite identity made by a large group.
The group would still have to convert but considerations could be made as has been done in other cases,
i.e. a shorter conversion course, less stringent requirements and more assistance
at every level.
This would be applied if the group was genuine and after a trial period.
Also to be part of such a group would make things easier all round.
c. At Present.
A number (?) of Ephraimite Christians have pretended they believe in
Judaism and have undergone Orthodox Conversion in Israel or tried to do so.
Some of these "Ephraimite" are allegedly missionaries and hope to bring Jews over
to their religious beliefs.
A certain Ephraimite leader is openly encouraging such behavior on his web site
and presents himself as an example of someone who managed to "hoodwink"
the Rabbinical authorities, obtain recognition as Jewish, and receive Israeli citizenship.
Consequently if one comes to Israel in order to convert and begins to speak
of "Ephraimite" sympathies one is liable to be greeted with suspicion.
Apart from that, though perhaps most applicants for Conversion are genuine
the end result is that only about 15% remain religious after Conversion is completed.
Even amongst these many still vaguely believe in Christian doctrines though after time
they usually let go of them.
We are not arguing here who is right or wrong or what the correct attitude should be.
We are just explaining the reality as we see it and as the Rabbinate understands it
so that the Orthodox position may be appreciated.
The Orthodox Position is that in order to receive recognition the candidate should
undergo full legitimate conversion and before that be prepared at least to accept the
Noahide Laws.
(2) The Brit-Am Position
a. Brit-Am Identity is a fact. The Lost Ten Tribes are definitely to be found mostly
amongst peoples Brit-Am identifies.
Someone from such groups who feels they are Israelite almost certainly is.
Legally this is not the same as being Jewish
and Judah is not obligated to recognize such people at the individual level.
Nevertheless, We have an obligation to make this fact known to both Judah and Joseph.
Eventually a Reconciliation and Recognition will take place
but how and when this will take place is not clear and it is
NOT OUR CONCERN AT PRESENT.
Three Rs of Brit-Am are:
The The three Rs of Brit-Am:
a. Research: Proving where descendants of the Lost Ten Tribes are today.
b. Revelation: Revealing Research findings to others especially to those who are identifiable as "Lost Israelites" and to the Jews of "Judah".
c. Reconciliation: Working for the Recognition that the Lost Tribes and Judah have a mutual destiny and common origin and interest
and therefore need to accept Israelite identification and the unique role of each other.
See:
Joseph
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesJoseph.html
Ephramites
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesEphraimite.html
Being Sure of Israelite Descent
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesBeingSure.html
Brit-Am
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesBrit-Am.html
Criteria
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesCriteria.html
Ephramites
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesEphraimite.html
Joseph
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesJoseph.html
Mosaic Law
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesLaw.html
Returning to the Land of Israel
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesReturntoLand.html
Reunification of Judah and Joseph
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesReunification.html
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