"Brit-Am Now"-798
Contents:
1. North West Irish Haplotype not so Irish?
2. Question on The "Northwest Irish Haplotype" Example
3. Tea Tephi Did not Exist??
4. Dell Griffin on the Rampage
5. Both Houses in Danger?
1. North West Irish Haplotype not so Irish?
Brit-Am is very very reserved about DNA as we have emphasized frequently.
We have several articles on our site on the subject,
A list of which may be found at:
http://www.britam.org/Questions/QuesDNA.html
We however never denied DNA altogether and believe that ultimately
to some degree it may well help Brit-Am researches.
At all events one of my sons went and took a test
and in analyzing the results we encountered some of the possible
virtues as well as many of the pitfalls of this field.
In the on-going saga of the DNA test taken by my son
the experts told us at first that the results indicated AMH (Atlantic Modal Haplotype)
which is the most common branch of R1b in the Western Hemisphere.
The test results (DNA markers) however were entirely different from
what defines AMH,
so that went out the window.
They also suggested Visigoth origins which if true would have been nice
but if not true then simply misleading and in light of later revelations appears to be
highly unlikely.
After that,
We found a few fellow marked-like-us fortunate (?) characters around the place mainly in Ireland, and Scotland
but also England.
Then it turned out that the markers were quite common
and started to turn up everywhere and be the object of study by others who were usually
more perspicacious than ourselves.
Someone seemed to see a pattern based on family names common to the
followers of Oliver Cromwell who settled in Ireland and assimilated amongst the Irish.
This theory however did not last long, or so it seemed.
[It has now been adapted and revived with a vengeance!]
Then we realized that we fitted a newly discovered group known by various names
but usually recognizable as the North West Irish Haplotype.
This group numbered about one in twelve of every Irishman and reached one in
five in Donegal in Northwest Ireland.
We wrote to people who had conducted this study.
They were very courteous and patient with us and affirmed that our markers
fitted the group. They also let us know that we were very exceptional.
The family of my father came from Wales but they seemed certain
that the group was native to Irishmen.
While still in the stages of digesting this information
and wondering if potential Ancient Irish Royalty was a step up on Welsh Commoners
we learned that the experts have changed their mind again.
A re-examination of evidence gathered in another study led the savants to the conclusion
that R1b1c7 otherwise known as
"R1bSTR19Irish haplotype","IMH" (Irish Modal Haplotype), "NorthWest Irish", and sundry
other appellations and romantically associated with Nial of the Nine Hostages
is also to be found throughout the British Isles.
In Eastern Scotland it is even more pronounced
than it is in Donegal, Ireland. It is also found in Wales.
Even in England though it may not be common
neither is it a stranger.
Previously,
it had also been reported (so far in small numbers) in France, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, and Germany.
I do not know if we should be relieved or disappointed.
Will all this go the way of hair and eye color, skull shape, and blood type,
and in the end be shown as
ultimately caused by the environment or sunspot movement?
Will the wonders of science never cease?
In the meantime our already complicated existence has taken
a new twist:
Politically I would incline to the Orange half of Ireland
but do I have more kin based on the male lineage on the "Green" side
of the hill?
Did they cross the Irish Sea to us or we to them?
The Jewish Connection?
Is there a Jewish Connection?
Not really.
Not as far as we know.
They were however almost certainly Israelites and on this matter the DNA findings
(if they really are valid) will need to be reconciled.
2. Question on The "Northwest Irish Haplotype" Example
re "Brit-Am Now"-797
#1. Answers to Criticisms on Web Site
http://www.britam.org/GeneralQues.html#Questions
Question:
From: "C. Koch"
Subject: Re: "Brit-Am Now"-797
Shalom Yair,
In Brit-Am Now #797, you referred us to your website for an answer. Your answer on the site referred to DNA experts - could you direct me to this information re the "Northwest Irish Haplotype"? I would be very interested to know this.
Answer: We used
The "Northwest Irish Haplotype" Example
for personal reasons as explained in entry no.1 above.
Information on this from the Irish point of view
may be obtained from:
http://tinyurl.com/y2xng6
For an update in general go to the archives at:
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index?list=genealogy-dna
and enter R1b1c7.
I repeat we only used this example for personal reasons.
We could have made the same point by using other examples,
e.g. the Supposed posterity of Genghis Khan:
http://histclo.com/bio/g/bio-genghis.html
<<One writer notes that today in Central Asia and othe areas conquered by Genghis there are about 16 million men with the same Y chromosome. There is no way to prove that their Y chromosome is that of Genghis, but the chronology suggests that it could well be. >>
Genghis Khan died in 1227 CE i.e. about 800 years ago
and he is believed to possibly be the ancestor of ca. 16 million men
or at least 32 million males and females.
For our purposes it does not really matter if Nial or Genghis Khan
forefathered so many people or not.
They may have done so.
Such phenomenon are statistically possible
and historically feasible.
That is our point.
It could be argued that the examples above are those of rulers
who with their descendants took multiple wives.
This may be so but lower key examples of monogamous replication
on a large scale repeated generation after generation also exist
and give similar (if less concentrated) results.
Examples could include
In England after the Agrarian and Industrial Revolutions;
Ireland after the introduction of the Potato.
French Canada after conquest by the British.
We also population bottlenecks, e.g. Most Ashkenazic
(European) Jews may be descended from only FOUR mothers
see
"Brit-Am Now"-657
http://britam.org/now/657Now.html
#3. DNA Four Mothers of Present Day European Jews?
These four mothers lived only a thousand years ago.
3. Tea Tephi Did not Exist??
THE CORONATION STONE - Jeremiah in Ireland
JEREMIAH IN IRELAND -- FACT OR FABRICATION?
http://www.biblemysteries.com/library/jeremiah.htm
This is an interesting article by
John D. Keyser.
Tea Tephi accorind to "British-Israel" and associated
literature was a daughter of Kink Zedekiah of Judah.
She came to Ireland in the company of the Prophet Jeremiah
and Baruch his scribe. In Ireland she married the son of the local King
and from their descendants emerged the ruling houses of Britain.
Thus in a roundabout way the Royal Family is descended on the female side from
the House of David.
Sources for this notion consisted of an interpretation of Irish Histories.
The above article discusses the sources and claims that nothing of the
sort was mentioned or intended.
It is worth reading and keeping in mind though I would not take it as necessarily
the last word on the subject.
Descendants of David (from several sources) probably did come to reign over Britain
as we have shown in our work "Ephraim".
Ireland for centuries was one of the centers of learning in Europe.
The monks and scholars of Ireland were often well acquainted with
Classical Greek and Roman writings and the traditions of Europe
including sources since lost to us.
They also had their own ancient traditions.
As is the way with "academics" everywhere they tended to merge
their various sources. This could lead to an exaggeration in dates given and identifications made.
Nevertheless much that is of genuine value still remained.
These sources say that their ancestors were in Egypt at the time that
the Israelites were there, that they identified with the Hebrews, that Israelites
were amongst them, and that at some stage they kept at least some aspects of the Mosaic Code.
This has been discussed in detail in our book
"Lost Israelite Identity. The Hebrew Ancestry of Celtic Races"
and we will discuss it again (God willing) in a future work.
4. Dell Griffin on the Rampage
Dell Griffin sent us a long and detailed letter.
He requested that we print his letter in full or refer people to his web-site
at:
www.torahvoice.org
First of all Dell Griffin has NOT retracted his treacherous attitude towards
the "Anglo" descendants of Joseph in North America who he said were about to be
punished by Mexicans and others he considers "true" Israelites.
This is nuts.
It is wicked and verges on the criminal.
Therefore we have little to relate to.
Dell has nothing to do with us and never did have and never wanted to.
In the past however Dell did present flashes of sanity
and held a position not far from our own.
He has since gone downhill.
He was however at one stage introducing others to an almost Brit-Am way of thinking.
There may have been some good at in his approach
as he formerly presented it and NOT as he now does.
A few points he wished clarified include:
1) Dell says: <<The sanction for calling the "Joes" by the name "Joes" came from Rebbe Shani Dor (the Breslov Hasid Rav Yisrael Tzvi Yehudah Schneider)...>>
2. Dell says he has a kind of Divinely appointed sanction for the Tribes.
<<my smichah [approbation] as a maggid [Divine Announcer] or commission from the Torah codes to "find Israel" and "raise them up as servants">>
3) He recalls only one meeting with me in Jerusalem and not three as I remembered
but admits that due to the trauma he endured shortly afterwards he may be mistaken.
<<But because of the stress of those days and subsequent post traumatic stress for which I continue to be treated, I may have forgotten those earlier visits. If so, I would like you to remind me of their substance. >>
Answer:
I may be mistaken. Maybe I do not remember correctly as could happen.
Whether there was one meeting, or three, it does not matter.
How many meetings there were, they were very short and consisted of an exchange of pleasantries,
personal small talk, some general principles and no more than that.
4) Dell says:
<<I did assert quite vehemently in an email to my list of Joes that the message of Brit-Am limiting Ephraim and M'nashe to Britain and America and British and American colonies was racist. I maintain that position.>>
5) Identifies Hopi, Aztecs, Chicano [Mexican?] as all one Israelite group
and wants the Israelite Government to accept them as such
and populate Samaria with them!!
6) The 500 families he was reported of wanting to convert
is based on a misunderstanding between himself and others.
There were no families and he did not want to convert them.
Beware:
Dell quotes from Jewish sources and Jewish Law but almost invariably does so wrongly
giving a false impression.
For instance he thinks that conversion to Judaism
"robs them of their Yovel [Jubilee] inheritance".
So such thing or concept exists.
Conversion to Judaism is an acceptance of religious obligations
and does not reflect on Tribal affiliation.
5. Both Houses in Danger?
willem brinkman wrote:
dear yair
i am making a study about israel and special the 10 lost tribes but nog only
that.
I think that i have found that almost all the genocides in history were
against israel usw on one or another way.
For instance:
2e world war holocaust
against armanians 10 tribes
against roma 10 TRIBES
against hugenuots 10 tribes
against kurds 10 tribes
against tutsi 10 tribes
There are maybe more.
I think it is because they try to prevent the coming of the messiah or the
new world leader.
please sent me your reaction.
best wishes
willem brinkman
Answer:
Even though we do not agree with you
somehow you have a point.
The Jews were considered the representative or the physical remnant of ALL Israel.
An attempt was made to massacre them.
The Armenians may be descended from Edom and Canaan
but the Exiled Twelve Tribes for a time were in their area and so
were many Jews who were forced to become Christians.
Armenians on the whole have been anti-Jewish but some descendants
of Jews and Israelites are amongst them.
Many of them were murdered by the Turks in an attempt at extermination.
The Roma or Gypsies probably come from India but some other element is
intermixed with them.
The Huguenots in France were of Israelite and Jewish origin.
The Kurds are Gentiles descendants of Medes and Assyrians but the
Lost Ten Tribes had been in their area (which overlaps with Armenia)
and some may have intermixed with them.
The Tutsi were identified by others as Israelites.
The Ashkenazi Jews are European Jews.
They are named "Ashkenazi" since in Rabbinical tradition
"Ashkenaz" means Germany.
The Jews of Europe were at one stage dominated by communities
that had dwelt in Germany and received aspects of German culture
such as Yiddish.
There exists an idea that the Ashkenazi Jews descend from the
Ten Tribes whereas Sephardi ("Spanish" or "Eastern") Jews come from
Judah.
We do not agree with this though to a small degree it may be partially correct.
The Khazars descend from the Lost Ten Tribes.
Some people claim they were Turkish.
There is nothing necessarily wrong with being Turkish (or anything else)
but the vehemence with which the "Turkish" claim is pressed
suggests that other motives than academic exactitude are involved.
They do not want either JUDAH or JOSEPH to exist!
This does not mean that they necessarily know who Judah or Joseph are
but subconsciously they are driven against us.
Betty Matteson Rhodes
had an insight worth paying attention to:
"CELTIC HERITAGES. The Celtic Link To King David"
WHY WAS ISRAEL LOST?
http://www.britam.org/Tribesman/BettyCeltic.html
<<Perhaps God caused the Northern tribes of Israel to become "lost" for safety's sake, in order to escape the murderous intentions of anti-Semitic dealings. God caused Israel (both North and South), to become "lost" and scattered them about the face of the earth. The South never forgot who they were, however.
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