"Brit-Am Now"-955
Contents:
1. Scots-Irish Founder Effect in Ulster
2. Some Free Tapes Sent Out
3. More Correspondence with Germanic-L
4. Germanic-L Replies and Answers
5. Megaliths - A New Source of Verification?
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1. Scots-Irish
Founder Effect in Ulster
Brit-Am Comment:
The extract below is saying that from Scotland there was a migration to Ulster
of people of a particular type which type increased and multiplied in Ulster
whereas in Scotland it diminished.
This is another example of "particularized
migration" that seems to have happened everywhere.
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GENEALOGY-DNA/2007-08/1187109038
From: Alan R
Subject: Re: [DNA] question re: Scots in Ireland and R1b
Extract:
I think it is far more likely that the Ulster planters
were an atypical selection (founder effect) of
Scotland's population. If you read the plantation
records of 1619, 1622 etc and later records, the
actual numbers of Scots-born who immigrated in the
plantation is small compared to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th
generation descendants. The Ulster settlers really
became a majority over the native Irish by their
spectacular growth in the next few generations, not by
weight of Scots-born who arrived. They have also
mixed a lot with the English settlers (there has not
been a barrier between Presbyterian and Anglican
marriage for a very long time).
The Scottish settlers were also culturally atypical
for Scotland,being mainly from an area of Scotland
which had unusually strong religious beliefs compared
to much of the rest of Scotland and this has remained
a difference to this day. Part of my own ancestry is
Ulster-Scots from the Scottish borders.
Alan
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2. Some Free Tapes
Sent Out
Shalom Yair,
I received the book I ordered, but it also had a used cassette tape in it
titled "Ten Lost Tribes in Biblical Prophecy."
Did you mean to include it with the book?
Shalom,
Batya
Yes.
We had a whole pile of tapes of different lectures we had given.
Initially doing house-cleaning we intended to throw them away.
In the past however people have been pleased to receive them
and it seemed a waste.
We therefore inserted them indiscriminately (first come, first served)
into book order packages we were sending out.
They who do not want them may dispose of them how they like
and we apologize if this is an imposition or anything such like.
They who appreciate them are welcome.
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3. More
Correspondence with Germanic-L
(a) Gunivortus wrote:
you wrote:
> Based on Biblical and Historical evidence these "Lost Israelites"
> are traced to the west.
> You can dismiss such a claim out of hand if you so wish but at
> the least it should not be misrepresented.
<<I'm sorry, but that isn't really convincing.
<<What evidence is that?
- about so called 'lost Israelites'
- about travelling to the west
Where did they arrive?
Too often I heard an read about "Many ancient and old sources
tell us ...", and if those sources are traced back, they all
refer to some obscure text or myth that doesn't prove anything.
Kind regards,
Gunivortus
Answer:
It is not evidence.
We merely wished to clarify what we are not and a little of what we are.
They who wish to learn more may visit our site if
they have not already done so.
http://www.britam.org
In short we base our belief on the Bible in the light of Rabbinical
Commentary.
We also have historical explanations that are fairly detailed.
These explanations are considered by us to be the
most likely scenarios in the light of
the evidence as we understand it.
This is an important aspect of our studies but one that we "elastic" about
and prepared to modify according to proofs available.
It is enough from our point of view to establish the historical POSSIBILITY
of large-scale migrations after ca.700 BCE from
the Middle East to Western Europe.
We believe that we have affirmed such movements.
Even however if we were wrong in this regard then
alternative possibilities exist
and it is enough for any one of them to be
correct to correspond with the Biblical
and related evidence we rely upon.
List of Migration Paths to the West
(1). Movement by Sea: Phoenician and Philistine
ships working for the Assyrians transported
Hebrews to Spain, Gaul, and Britain.
(2). Movement by Land Northward
Ca.740-720 BCE: Israelites taken to North of the
Middle East where they became identified with the
Cimmerians, Scyths, and Goths.
(3). Cimmerians-Israelites moved to Europe
(4). First Scythian Movements to Europe Ca. 550 BCE.
(5). Royal Scythians Move Westward 300-100 BCE.
(6). Barbarian Scythian-Israelites
associated with the Hun invasion of Europe in the 400s CE.
(7). The Danites and Nephtalites Move to Scandinavia
in the 400's to 600's CE.
(8) Overflow from above process (no.7) results in
The Viking Invasions.
(9). The Normans were descended from Vikings.
They settled in England, Ireland, Normandy (France),
and elsewhere.
(10). The Picts of Scotland and the Khazars who
converted to Judaism were both derived from the
Agathyrsy (of the Tribe of Manaaseh)
and from other Scythian groups.
(11) From Germany to North America: In the 1700s
and 1800s CE Israelites separated themselves from
their non-Israelite neighbors and moved out to North America.
(12). The Rest of Europe
People of Israelite origin separated themselves
from their non-Israelite and moved to Israelite Nations.
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4. Germanic-L
Replies and Answers
GardenStone (Gunivortus) wrote:
Hi Rhinefrank,
> the Anglo-Saxons are actually the descendants of Hebrews, having no
> genetic connection to the Continental Saxons, and only spoke a
...snip...
And don't forget the 'truth' of Erich von D niken, which he found in
his "verrrrrrry old sourrrrrrces ...".
--
Kind regards,
Gunivortus
Brit-Am Reply:
This sounds like someone quoting us but it is not
a formulation we would have used.
Please quote your sources more clearly.
At present your quotations are misleading.
Bede (EH 5:9) lists amongst the "Anglo-Saxon" forces invading Britain the
Frisians, Rugini, Huns, Danes, Old Saxons, Boroctari.
The invaders came from all over Germany and elsewhere but the
main forces were headed by the Angles, Saxons,
Jutes, and in the north a branch of the Vandals (Warings etc).
The Angles and Saxons who invaded were related to a portion of the Frisians.
Any claim that they were kith and kin with the
other speakers of a Germanic tongue
needs to be proven by they who make the claim and we do not..
Linguistically there is an accepted school of
thought that originally a group in the North spoke a
non-Indo-Germanic tongue and merged with Indo-Germanic speakers.
The result was a "proto-Germanic" dialect that was imposed on all other groups
in what became the "Germanic" sphere.
We say that the original non-Germanic element was Hebrew:
see:
Terry Marvin Blodgett
The Hebrew Sources of Northern Tongues
http://britam.org/tongues.html
You also quote from
the "Oera Linda Book" giving the impression that we use this source.
We do not. I have never read it. Maybe I should have but from the little I
saw was not impressed.
We do however use other sources dealing with mythology, such as
"Freische Mythen en Sagen" by J.P. WIESMA,
1973 (excerpts translated for us by
Fred J. KOESLAG of Gouda, Holland).
Jean Francoise LE PETIT. "Le Grande Chronicle
Ancienne et Moderne de Holland, Zeelande,
Utrecht, Frise, Oversyseel; et de Groenungham", Dordrecht, 1601.
F.L. BORCHARDT, "German Antiquity in
Renaissance Myth". 1971 London and U.S.A.
The legends (mentioned by Le Petit and J.P. Wiesma quoted above) say that:
Three brothers being descended from Shem were in
Jerusalem at the time of its destruction by the Babylonians:
"In the time of the destruction of
Jerusalem by Nebuchadnessar (586 B.C.), 3
brothers - Friso, Bruno, and Saxo with [their]
wives, children, and relatives fled out of the
country, encouraged to do so by announcements of
the Prophets concerning the fall of the town".
In this legend Bruno represents the
Angles who according to Ptolemy had at one stage
been centered on the region of Brunswick in
Eastern Germany. The Angles had also had a center
in Angeln to the south of Denmark or else they
moved to Angeln prior to the invasion of England.
By placing Friso, Bruno, and Saxo in Jerusalem
(which became representative of all Israel)
before its capture the legend in effect infers
that the Frisians, Saxons, and
Brunswickian-Angles were therefore originally
Israelites or Jews. The Venerable Bede also
appears to identify the Anglo-Saxons as the Chosen People.
The three brothers were descended from Adel
(which name in some cases represented the Hun alliance)
and before moving west lived in "India" which is
described as a land by the Emodian Mountains and
these according to Ptolemy were in the area
adjoining the Caspian and Aral Seas, in east
Scythia, to the north of Afghanistan and India-proper.
You also link us with Erich von Daniken which is somewhat dishonest.
We use sources that are considered valid and
relied upon by most authorities in the field.
We may interpret them a little differently but
not so much as to invalidate our conclusions.
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5. Megaliths - A
New Source of Verification?
https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/citd/holtorf/5.1.6.html
This article claims that megalithic monuments were imitated by later
cultures
in Northern Europe, Ireland, and Scotland.
The article actually provides additional indications that these "later
cultures" were contemporary with Megaliths from the very beginning.
This is a question we hope to discuss in the next posting of
BAMBU (Brit-Am Megalithic Bulletin Update)
http://britam.org/megalithic.html