"Brit-Am Now"-66

Date: 08/06/2002 2:17:28 AM Central Daylight Time

1. Future Messiahs from Manassah, from Ephraim, and from Judah
2. Comparison of Nationalist Songs sung to the Same Tune

1. Future Messiahs from Manassah, from Ephraim, and from Judah
Question and Answer no 1 is given and is a repetition from previous
correspondence
With David Sykes, Then Question and Answer no 2 is given in which David
Sykes opens our eyes to a new source which we have translated and posted.
Question and Answer no 1
Subject: "Brit-Am Now"-61
>4. Subject: comments/questions To: britam@netvision.net.il

>Hi
>I have been a part of the e-mail correspondence for a while now and was
hoping i would come >across certain issues that others would have asked but
since this is not the case I would like to >pose the following
>1)does Brit Am have a position on Menashe Ben Israel's theories that at
one time the continents >were connected specifically to south america and
that the lost tribes followed a migration pattern >that started in
Afghanistan(populated largely by Ephraim who were known for their warlike
<impetuousness) and ending with the American Indian?
>2)There is a Midrash that makes reference to a third Messiah from menashe
--this idea does not >seem to have taken hold in lore--any further
knowledge on this area?
>please advise
>Sincerely yours
>David M

>Answers: Regarding question no.1 we are skeptical.
>Question no.2 In general the sources suggest two future messiahs:
>a. Messiah son of David from Judah.
>b.Messiah ben Joseph who however is usually described as being from Ephraim.
>There are sources that speak of future great leaders such as Elijah and a
future High Priest who >also has messianic qualities.
>I have never so far come across a reference to a Messiah from  Menasseh
but if there is such a >source I would be very interested.

Question and Answer no 2
Dear Yair,

The reason I mentioned Menashe Ben Israel's theory is that he clearly is an
intellectual heavyweight and while I am clearly not an expert on history,
my understanding was that his theory was the one most widely accepted by
convention and traditional circles up to the modern era--of course like all
else, it was put forth as a theory, although i find it interesting that
Lord ?Killingsborough?, seemd to have independently come up with a similar
notion about the lost tribes

Regarding Messianic concepts, I too was brought up in the conventional
traditional view of 2 messiahs, one from Joseph, accepted to be from
Ephraim, and one from Judah, aside form the role of Elijah who also is
involved as a herald of sorts
in my weekly review of the Midrash Rabbah I came accross in Parashat Naso,
chapter XIV that there were 4 annointed saviors designated
1)Elijah
2)Messiah from Menashe
3)Messiah annointed for war from Ephraim
4) Messiah from David, the "great redeemer"
Given i had not seen this before i was wondering if you had a take on this
and why this was not spoken of more in Rabbinic literature, unless of
course the Chazal had a competing tradition that they felt was more widely
accepted and accurate--I really don't know
G-d Bless
David M Sykes
Answer by Brit-Am: We looked up the source and it does mentioned a future
redeemer from Manassah alongside Elijah,
an Annoited Messiah for War from Ephraim, and the Ultimate Redeemer
descended from David of Judah.
This is what the source says:

Midrash (Numbers) Naso 14;1:
<<... "GILEAD IS MINE, AND MANASSEH IS MINE; EPHRAIM ALSO IS THE STRENGTH
OF MINE HEAD; JUDAH IS MY LAWGIVER" [Psalms 60:7].
<<"GILEAD IS MINE", this is Eliyahu who dwelt in Gilead.
"MANASSEH IS MINE", this is the Messiah who comes from the descendants of
Manassah as it says, ["GIVE EAR, O SHEPHERD OF ISRAEL, THOU THAT LEADEST
JOSEPH LIKE A FLOCK; THOU THAT DWELLEST BETWEEN THE CHERUBIMS, SHINE
FORTH.] "BEFORE EPHRAIM AND BENJAMIN AND MANASSEH STIR UP THY STRENGTH, AND
COME AND SAVE US" [Psalms 80:1-2].
"EPHRAIM ALSO IS THE STRENGTH OF MINE HEAD;" [Psalms 60:7]. This is the
Annoited One [Messiah] for War who comes from Ephraim as it says, "HIS
GLORY IS LIKE THE FIRSTLING OF HIS BULLOCK" [Deuteronomy 33:17].
JUDAH IS MY LAWGIVER" [Psalms 60:7]. This is the Final Deliverer (Redeemer)
who comes from the descendants of David>>.
 
 

2. Comparison of Nationalist Songs sung to the Same Tune
From: Vic Summerour
Subject: Re: "Brit-Am Now"-57
"Brit-Am Now"-57
Contents:
7.The Identity of Menasseh with the USA.

Keeping in mind the characteristics attributed to Ephraim and Manasseh, it
is interesting to compare and contrast the lyrics of two "national" songs,
one for the USA and the other for Britain, both sung to the same music.
 

My Country , 'Tis of Thee
http://ingeb.org/spiritua/mycountr.html
 

God save the King/Queen
http://ingeb.org/songs/godsaveo.html
 

There do appear to be minor differences in the music, but the tune is
essentially the same between the two songs.
 

My Country , 'Tis of Thee

http://ingeb.org/spiritua/mycountr.html

My Country, 'Tis of Thee
 

Melody - England, 18th century Henry Carey?

1-2:Samuel Francis Smith; 3-4:Henry van Dyke

1. My country, 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing:
Land where my father's died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From ev'ry mountainside
Let freedom ring!

2. My native country thee,
Land of the noble free,
Thy name I love:
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills;
My heart with rapture thrills
Like that above.
3. Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees
Sweet freedom's song:
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break,
The sound prolong.

4. Our fathers' God, to Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing:
Long may our land be bright
With freedom's holy light;
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God, our King!

God save the King/Queen
http://ingeb.org/songs/godsaveo.html

1. God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us;
God save the Queen!

2. O Lord our God arise,
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall;
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!

3. Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign;
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen!

   4. Not in this land alone,
But be God's mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world over.

5. From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O'er her thine arm extend,
For Britain's sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!

6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King!

This Text and Tune is often credited to Henry Carey, 1740, although there
is controversy with many votes, including the British monarchy's, for
anonymous. On official occasions, only the first verse is usually sung, and
occasionally verse 3. The tune has been used by many countries for anthems
and hymns.
According to the French encyclopaedia, Quid, the music is by Giam Battista
Lulli (Jean-Baptiste Lully in the French form). It was loosely based on a
hymn sung when the (French) king arrived at an event, Domine Salvum Fac
Regem. When Louis XIV was scheduled to open the educational institution at
St-Cyr (1686), his mistress (later, queen), the Marquise de Maintenon,
commissioned Lully to write the tune to be sung by the pupils as Dieu
Prote`ge le Roi. The French, apparently, did not use it again until 1745 at
which time the Old Pretender, claiming to be King James III of England, was
organising his rebellion from France (he lived at St-Germain-de-Laye).
Madame de Maintenon presented him with the words and music as his National
Anthem. (It is not clear who wrote the English words but the implication is
that Mme de Maintenon either wrote them herself or commissioned them.) The
song was sung for the first time in Britain when Bonnie Prince Charlie
landed in Scotland. There are apparently some legal testaments to this story.



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