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The Brit-Am
Movement of the Lost Ten Tribes
Brit-Am Now no. 1435
The Lost Ten Tribes of Israel Movement
29 December 2009, 12 Tevet 5770
Contents:
1. Answers to Criticism of the Brit-Am Understanding of the Coat of Joseph
2. Brian Patmore:
The Celtic Areas of Spain
3. Changes and New Entries to Tartan Article
1. Answers to Criticism of the Brit-Am
Understanding of the Coat of Joseph
TG wrote:
re The Scottish Tartan Cloak of Joseph
http://www.britam.org/tartan.html
When you write something, and quote other people, dead or alive,
you need to say when they said it, or where it was written.
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Brit-Am Replies:
That is what we have done more or less. Where we have not we will correct it.
Apart from that when known authorities are quoted and there is only one source
then nothing more than the name should be required.
It should however have been obvious that the source was the Commentary of the
Commentators quoted to the verse considered i.e. Genesis 37:3.
All the Commentators quoted are known
Rabbinicial
authorities and details about them are freely available from the web.
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TG said:
Hence..
Brit-Am wrote: #The other school says
that the word "passim" applied to the design.#
TG said:
there is no other 'school' unless you can point to a source that
says so.
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Brit-Am replies:
I do not understand your point. We quote the Rabbinical Commentators who
interpret the verse in a similar fashion. This in plain English constitutes a
school of thought as against those who think differently.
On the other hand, when taking the overall view you are correct. There is no
other school really. All the Commentators in effect DO REACH A KIND OF
CONSENSUS!
They agree that the Cotonet
Pasim
was probably long sleeved, of many colors, and of a tartan-type design of
interlocking stripes and squares.
Thank you for pointing this out.
We were so busy getting the details of each in individual explanation that we
nearly missed the overall conclusion!
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TG said:
Brit-Am wrote:
#This appears to be the
majority opinion.#
TG said: you haven't shown this by examining every commentary.
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Brit-AM Replies:
Tens of thousands of commentaries exist. We have quoted from most of the major
Rabbinical sources.
If you think we have omitted relevant commentaries please quote them.
Otherwise refrain from criticism unless you have something substantial to back
it with.
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Brit-Am wrote:
#Pasim
means stripe or line. Thus we have the concept of stripes or interweaving
lines that according to tradition were of different colors.#
TG said:
christian tradition, not Jewish
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Brit-Am Replies:
No. This is Classical Hebrew usage as used by the Commentators and as used today
in Spoken Modern Hebrew. The Hebrew spoken today in Israel
is that of the traditional sources along with some modernizing input from
academic experts on the language (who themselves consult the sources) who have
been appointed to the task. In addition the language has an inner dynamism and
logic of its own. A very significant proportion of the Jews who created the
State of Israel already had some familiarity with Hebrew (through religious
studies) before coming to Israel. If a Hebrew word in present-day usage has a
certain meaning then this is worth considering when coming to question the
original meaning of the word. In this case we also have the same usage in both
the modern and the Classical sources.
It may be that your knowledge of Hebrew is lacking but in questions such as the
present one you should not rely only on English language dictionaries but (based
on previous correspondence with you) that is what you are doing.
If you do not know you may ask me.
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Brit-Am wrote:
#The Septuagint says it
was a garment of "many colors". #
TG said: which version, but in any case, christian.
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Brit-Am replies:
The Septuagent
may have been later used by Christians. It was originally a Jewish work and is
mentioned by Philo of Alexandria and in the Talmud (Megilla
9). It is usually dated from some time in the 100s BCE or earlier.
We should not have to tell you this since you seem (or want to seem) better
acquainted with it than we are.
As for which version why should you care?
Have you checked even one of them?
Are there differences in interpretation of Genesis 37:4 between the different
versions?
Stop bluffing.
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Brit-Am wrote:
The Wyclif
Bible (1380 to 1390) "a cote of many
colours".
TG said: again a Christian tradition through misinterpretation
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Brit-Am replies:
Just because it is Christian does not make it wrong. It was based on
Classical
sources and on scholars who consulted Rabbinical authorities.
That does not make it automatically correct but it is worth noting.
Apart from that, in your previous missives to my humble self you seem to have
relied much more on non-Jewish opinions and interpretations than we have.
You say it is misinterpretation because you dislike the implications that
Brit-Am ascribes to it NOT due to intrinsic examination.
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Brit-Am wrote:
#Each strip [pas, pisah]
of the woven cloth was of a different color# (Rabbi
Yonah
iben
Janach
ca. 990-1050 CE Spain).
TG said:
source please since I want to know not only conclusion, but how
he came to this conclusion
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Brit-Am replies:
All sources are from the Commentaries to Genesis 37:4. We have quoted what he
said as transcribed in the Commentary
Daat
Mikra
on Sefer
Breishit
[The book of Genesis].
In the overwhelming majority of cases the Commentators did not explain how they
came to any conclusion beyond what we have quoted.
In fact no Commentary apart perhaps from
Abarbanel
will give such an explanation. They did not need to. Their opinion derives from
the simple Hebrew meaning. If you were at all familiar with these commentaries
you would not have made such a remark. Not only have you taken a prior decision
on the subject without knowing what the sources say but you want us to do your
work for you to find justification for your prejudice and bigotry.
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Brit-Am wrote:
Radak
(1160 - 1235 Southern France): "It (the garment) was of many colors with each
strip (Hebrew: "pas") being of a color in its own right" (David
Kimchi,
"Sefer
HaShorashim"
item "pas").
TG said:
source please since I want to know not only conclusion, but how
he came to this conclusion
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Brit-Am Replies:
I gave you the source i.e. Rabbi David
Kimchi
(Radak),
"Sefer
HaShorashim"
on the word "pas".
I have a copy of the original Hebrew Version here.
Now go search for an English Translation.
I do not like useing
intellectual arrogance against you but that is what you are doing with me while
remaining oblivious to your own vulnerability on these points.
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Brit-Am said:
Ralbag
(Gersonides)
translates "passim" as "mishbatsot"
i.e. squares.
TG said:
source please since I want to know not only conclusion, but how
he came to this conclusion.
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Brit-Am replies:
(ibid)
The Commentary of Ralbag
is found in many versions of
Mikraot
Gedolot
[A Classic Very Popular Rabbinical Collection of Commentaries on the Bible]. You
will not find anything beyond which we have quoted. The
Ralbag
wrote his Commentary for those who like himself understood Hebrew and anything
beyond the explanation that "pasim"
meant mishbatsot
(squares of tartan type) was superfluous.
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Brit-Am said:
Aryeh
Kaplan ("The Living Torah", 1981) utilizes both major opinions and translates
"cotonet
passim" as a "long colorful coat" (Genesis 37:3).
TG said:
source please since I want to know not only conclusion, but how
he came to this conclusion.
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Brit-Am replies:
Are you normal? This is the source as given above, i.e.
Aryeh
Kaplan ("The Living Torah", 1981) on Genesis 37:3.
I see it is not only Hebrew you have trouble comprehending.
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Brit-Am said:
This approach is in fact acceptable.
TG said: to you
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Brit-Am replies:
The approach of synthesizing different opinions and of searching for their
common denominator is that of most of the early authorities.
It is also an approach that we are sympathetic with.
In this case it is the approach adopted by the
Natziv
and by Rabbi Aryeh
Kaplan and the other Commentators with whom you unfortunately appear to be not
as familiar as you perhaps should be. In principle this approach is applied
everywhere in studies of this nature.
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Brit-Am said:
The Hebrew Bible is a
Divine work. Each word is there for a reason. The beauty of the Hebrew
Language is that one word may have several meanings and the sentence so
arranged that more than one of the meanings be intended at one and the same
time.
TG said:
but each time a meaning is used, it has to be justified in its
usage....
so why was it necessary for Yaakov to make the coat he gave to Yosef 'colourful'
(according to you)?
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Brit-Am Replies:
You should try and make your points more clearly. Your antagonism and sheer
superciliousness comes across quite strongly but the rationale that presumably
exists behind it does not.
As for why Jacob gave Joseph a colored garment?
I do not know.
That was not the aim of the article.
The Commentators however say that the coat was of differing colors in lines and
squares in patterns (of tartan type) similar to those worn by people in the
region of Canaan as depicted on Egyptian walls. The Bible itself indicates that
the cotonet
pasim
signified rank (2-Samuel 13:18) as confirmed by the
Commentatory
Daat
Mikra.
Why Jacob gave Joseph the coat and why the coat he gave was designed as it was
is not the main point of our article.
Our article aimed to show what the coat probably looked like and to point out
that the said design was a tartan one or highly similar to it.
This reflects Divine Providence and an instinctive awareness by the Scottish
concerning their ancestry from Joseph.
2. Brian
Patmore:
The Celtic Areas of Spain
Shalom Yair,
Maybe a study of the Celtic areas of Spain (Galicia, Catalan, Asturia, Basques
etc) could also reveal the tartain
bagpipes etc etc. Look at dance and the like as a cultural connection as well.
Just a few ideas (I speak fluent Spanish and as such am quite aware of what I am
suggesting.)
May [THE ALMIGHTY] smile upon you all back home in Yisrael !!
Shalom,
Brian
Brisbane
3. Changes and New Entries to Tartan
Article
The Scottish Tartan Cloak of Joseph
http://www.britam.org/tartan.html
Pasim and Rashi: In the Commentary of Rashi besides the word "Pasim" we find
the comment: "Expression connoting Garment of Milet." This could be the result
of editing. Rashi may have meant his comment to apply to the combined words "Cotonet
passim" and to be based on the meaning of the word "cotonet". Rashi mentions a
garment of Milet meaning a garment of very fine high-qulaity wool named after
the city of Miletus on the west coast of Anatolia i.e. present-day Turkey. This
city is recorded from the Bronze Age and was apparently known for the quality of
its woven wool.
Rashi would therefore suggest that the garment of Joseph was made of wool but
linen appears the most acceptable.
The Talmud (Shabat 10b) however also supports the wool thesis.
The Talmud says that a man should always be careful not to favor any of his
children more than the others. It gaves as an example of the unfavorable results
of favoritism the case of Joseph and the coat of many colors in which for "the
sake of two shekels in weight of milet [fine wool] our forefathers went down
into Egypt". Rashi in his commentary to this source concerning "milet"
surprisingly says "not necessarily so" and brings a source suggesting that only
a small part of the sleeve was actually of milet wool.
Gersonides opined that Cotonet Pasim connoted royalty.
Radak on Genesis 37:3.
# Cotonet Pasim. Pasim, cf. the part [pas] of the hand (Daniel 5:5). The Cotonot
was made of different pieces [pasim, strips]. One piece was of one color another
piece of another like a garment of Miletus [Hebrew: cli milet] made with a
design of different colored stripes [pasim].#
Nachmanides (1194-1270, Spain, Jerusalem in Israel)
Nachmanides (like Gersonides) mentions both the signification of royalty and the
tartan-type [tashbets] design.
Nachmanides (Exodus 28:2): ## For these clothes are clothes of royalty and like
unto them were worn by monarchs in the time of the Torah. And so we find
concerning the Cotonet, "he made him a tunic of many colors" (Genesis 37:3),
meaning embroidered in the form of lines [Pasim] this being a garment of
[tartan-type] Squares [tashbets]##.
HaNatziv (Rabbi Naftali Zvi Yehuda Berlin, 1816 ? 1893, Russia)
HaNatziv also adopted a synthetic approach saying that Cotonet Pasim connoted
both a long-sleeved garment and one decorated with a tartan type design of
interlocking squares.
HaNatziv (Genesis 37:3):
##Cotonet Pasim. That reached up to the end [Hebrew: pas] of his hand.
Alternately it defines a specific weaving as for stripes [pasim] [i.e. to create
a pattern involving lines or stripes]. And so wrote Ramban [Nachmanides].
..[Exodus 23]...like a garment design involving squares [tashbets] and so too
would it appear from Rashi on [Talmud] Shabat 10 [not found??]...all men of rank
wore such garments only that of Joseph was especially distinguished ##
We thus find that the Natziv interprets "cotonet pasim" in a way that
encompasses all of the discussed possibilities: reaching to arms length, square
[tartan-type] design, denoting rank and status.#
Daat Sofrim (Rabbi Chaim Dov Rabinovitz 1909-2001, Russia, Israel) on Genesis
37:3.
# Pasim. There were an external expression of appreciation and admiration for
the inner essence [of Joseph] as well as an expression of faith in his future.
Jacob made him a special garment that symbolized his primacy and superiority...#
Sforno (Rabbi Obadiah Sforno, c. 1470 - 1550, Italy) on Genesis 37:3.
# Cotonot Pasim. This was a sign that Joseph would be the leader in the house
and in the field
as it says, AND I WILL CLOTHE HIM WITH THY ROBE [Hebrew "cotonetcha"] ...
AND I WILL COMMIT THY GOVERNMENT INTO HIS HAND [Isaiah 22:21].
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