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Brit-Am Now no. 1789.
Movement of the Ten Tribes of Israel.
7 December 2011, 11 Kislev 5772.
Contents:
1. Michelle Bowie: The Wife of Noah Explains the Birth of Esau?
2. Another Question on Tribal Identifications.
3. Cecil Davis: Reflections on Cain and the Bloodline of Adam.
4. Bible codes software now available for free download.
5. David: Wants Less Typing Signs. Costs Money?
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1. Michelle Bowie: The Wife of Noah Explains the Birth of Esau?
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1788.
#3. Was the Wife of Noah Descended from Cain?
http://britam.org/now2/1788Now.html#3
Shalom Yair,
Intersting subject about Noah's wife. I know many refute the authenticity of Sefer Yasher but I have taken the time to do an exhaustive study of bloodlines using both Torah and Yasher and there is indeed a mixing of the Seth and Cain bloodlines. Before doing this study I was at a loss for many years to understand how Rivkah could possibly have given birth to two totally different peoples, even given the Words of the Almighty saying that two nations struggled within her.
Only after doing the study using Yasher also, did it appear to make sense that the seed of Cain survivied the flood through the bloodlines of Noah and his offspring. This helps then to make sense of why Esau despised his birthright and became an avid hater of Ya'akov and then of course, Israel.
Some may agree or may not....but it does explain alot and seems to make sense especially when one from a very good family turns out to be evil and many are at a loss to undertsand why or how that could happen.
Blessings, mb
2. Another Question on Tribal Identifications.
Re Brit-Am Now no. 1787.
#5.Question and Discussion Concerning Individual Tribal Identifications
http://britam.org/now2/1787Now.html#5
Mike (NZ) wrote:
Shalom Yair,
Thank you for your prompt reply. It seems we agree with the most commonly accepted view - that this is extremely complex.
Most historians say the USA and Britain are melting pots of many different nationalities and tribes, both heathen majorities and Israelite minorities. So the idea of distinguishing any one of 10 tribes in the USA and Britain [e.g. Manasseh and Ephraim] is virtually impossible. Any DNA markers [if scientist became good at this ] would trace back to all10 tribes as well as to numerous pagan ancestors most certainly. Your statement that the USA is Manasseh, and Britain is Ephraim is odd in view of the melting pot we now have. It seems to match with certain Biblical promises but not with the realities of history. So my question - do we believe the scriptures or the realities of history? And if we can't believe history then the whole exercise in trying to find any of 10 tribes is a waste of time. Sorry to sound so negative but I just can't pretend that everyone else is wrong and I'm the only one who know anything.
I think the best conclusion is your statement - "The Messiah will identify which Tribe each Israelite belongs to." Until then its anyone guess.
Shalom, Mike
Brit-Am Reply:
Historians do not say that any of the constituent elements of the USA and Britain were Israelite minorities or majorities.
They identify all of them (except for the Jews) as Gentiles of originally pagan origin but long since converted to Christianity.
We do not see your problem.
The Bible tells us that each Tribe will have its own blessing and its own national destiny (cf. Genesis ch. 49, Deuteronomy ch. 33).
This will be especially apparent in the End Times:
[Genesis 49:1] And Jacob called his sons and said, Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days.
If peoples may be identified as of Israelite Descent then why should an identification of their specific tribe also not be possible?
It is true that for individuals a definite Tribal allocation may be difficult but in the aggregate we can say which groups were dominant in certain areas and in many cases we may obtain a reasonably reliable indication as to which Tribe they pertained to.
Why is the USA any different?
Granted, America is a melting pot and that immigrants arrived from all over the earth.
Nevertheless certain ethnic groups were predominant especially at the beginning.
Even now distinctions may be made:
cf.
Largest Ethnic / Racial Groups in the U.S.
All figures come from the U.S. Census Bureau Report issued in June 2004
http://names.mongabay.com/ancestry/
ancestry-population.html
Ancestry Number Percent Number Percent Number Percent
Total population 281,421,906
% of Population (year 2000)
German 15.2
Irish 10.8
English 8.7
African American 8.8
Italian 5.6
American 7.2
Mexican 6.5
French 3.0
Polish 3.2
American Indian 2.8
Dutch 1.6
Scotch-Irish 1.5
Scottish 1.7
Swedish 1.4
Other ancestries 1.6
Norwegian1.6
Russian 0.9
French Canadian 0.8
Welsh 0.6
Spanish 0.8
Puerto Rican 0.9
Danish 0.5
Hungarian 0.5
Czech 0.4
Portuguese 0.4
In the beginning people from the Western parts of the British Isles were the most dominant.
Now the German, Irish, and English (after the Afro-Americans) contingents form the largest contingents.
The German immigrants to the USA were mostly of Israelite origin whereas those Germans who remained in Germany were not, as we explained.
Taking these together with the other groups we identify as Israelite we still get more than 40%.
Amongst the other there may also be those who should be classified as Israelites. Afro-Americans are at least 20% white. How many of these should be regarded as Israelites is another question.
We do not have to have all the answers.
We may say that a substantial proportion of the US population derives from peoples in which Israelite Tribes were dominant.
Those who come from other places are in many cases also Israelites obeying an ancestral urge to re-unite with their Hebrew Kinfolk.
Not only that but qualitatively the Israelite elements still play a commanding role in US life.
If you read books like "Born Fighting. How the Scots-Irish Shaped America" by James Webb (2004), you would be likely (in lieu of additional information) to think that the Scots-Irish determined what being an American is and still practically run the show?
Most US Presidents have indeed been of Scots-Irish stock.
The statistics however show only 1.5% of Scots-Irish stock!
What happened?
Nothing. They played their role in history. They derived from Manasseh and they helped create the USA as a nation that in Biblical terms played the role given to Manasseh.
We may therefore identify the USA as Manasseh from the point of view of Prophecy.
Most descendants of Manasseh are probably today in the USA.
That is what we need to know.
Other Israelite Tribes are also present. There may numerically be even more from Ephraim than from Manasseh in the USA.
Nevertheless the USA is still primarily the nation through which Manasseh obtained expression whereas Britain and her offshoots belonged more to Ephraim.
These explanations are not complicated. They are not irrational. They make sense. They are paralleled by demographic, genealogical, and sociological studies for what they are worth.
If the Bible says something then it is true and it will also be reflected in concrete reality.
We may thus in very general terms roughly identify certain groups and ethnicities as belonging to definite Israelite Tribes.
Regarding the individual matters are a bit more complicated.
Therefore the Messiah (or a process emanating from him) will bring about the definite allocations for each and every one of us.
cf.
Maimonides:
In the time of the King Messiah, when his kingdom shall be settled and all Israel gathered into him, he will establish the family relationship of everyone according to the divine spirit of inspiration upon him. As it says, AND HE SHALL SIT AS A REFINER AND PURIFIER OF SILVER: And he begins with the Tribe of Levi, as it says AND HE SHALL PURIFY THE SONS OF LEVI, AND PURGE THEM [Malachi 3:3] And he only establishes the family relationship of Israel according to their tribes. He makes known who belongs to this tribe and who belongs to that one.
Rambam: The Laws of Kings and Their Wars, chapter twelve, item 6.
3. Cecil Davis: Reflections on Cain and the Bloodline of Adam.
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1788.
#3. Was the Wife of Noah Descended from Cain?
http://britam.org/now2/1788Now.html#3
Hi Yair,
My quotes are from the King James Bible.
As you know the bloodline (or seed) is from the man, therefore it makes no difference if Noah's wife was a descendant from Cain, there are no clear Biblical words that prove she was from Cain.
Even if true she would be in the bloodline of Adam since Cain was one of Adam's sons.
Cain was in the bloodline of Adam and Adam's blood came from Almighty God. Genesis 7:2, "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul".
Leviticus 17:11, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the alter to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul". Our Bloodline is very important to God regardless of man's ideas.
Our soul comes from our God given spirit's contact with our sin filled world. Zachariah 12:1, "The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel---and formeth the spirit of man within him".
Ecclesiastes 12:7, "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it". There are no preconditions with this forever promise by Almighty God.
Eve wasn't created as Adam was she was "Made" from man and therefore in Adam's bloodline: Genesis 2:22, "And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man". Verse 23, "And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man".
God certainly was against Cain killing Able, but God clearly protected Cain from being murdered. Genesis 4:15, "--And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him".
Cain and Able were not Adam and Eve's first children because Cain was fearful of other humans killing him. Genesis 4:16, "And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden".
Verse 17, "And Cain knew his wife and she conceived, and bare E'-noch: and he builded a a city---". Cain's wife was living in Nod and the land of Nod must have had plenty of people to qualify as a land east of Eden.
Your friend, Cecil
4. Bible codes software now available for free download
From: Yochanan Spielberg <yochanan_spielberg@yahoo.com>
bs"d
Shalom Yair,
Hi -- just wanted to let you know my new web site with my Bible codes program is up. The address is
http://www.biblecodespredictions.net
There are also a couple of YouTube videos there you might want to promote to your list.
Best wishes.
Yochanan
5. David: Wants Less Typing Symbols. Costs Money?
Subject: we love ya
Yair !! we love ya man ! ! !
However - portrait or landscape = a lot of wasted space & bandwidth on iPhone.
W-E P-A-Y D-E-A-R-L-Y FOR THIS!!
($ $ $ data plan$ $ $)
Please refrain from unnecessary #=#=#=#=#
Brit-Am Reply:
Shalom,
We would prefer more concrete suggestions.
