Joseph and the Law.
Do Ephraimites have to Keep the Law of Moses in our time as distinct from the End Times?
Continued from previous Page
A Discussion amongst "Brit-Am Now" Subscribers.
Remarks followed by Brit-Am Replies.
Brit-Am and the Law of Moses
Contents:
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c. Beginning of The Discussion on the "Brit-Am Now" List with slight Amendations
d. Continuation of the Discussion: Remarks with Brit-Am Answers
Not Keeping the Law!!!
Beginning of The Discussion on the "Brit-Am Now" List with slight Amendations
2. re Not Keeping the Law: Not Convinced and Disappointed in Brit-Am
From: Michal
Re: "Brit-Am Now"-1009 WARNING
#5. Why the Lost Tribes are not OBLIGATED under the Law today. General Outline
Yair-You are completely wrong about the obligations to Covenant and are in GREAT DANGER for telling the Lost Ten tribes they are not OBLIGATED to follow TORAH . This is a grave sin/transgression of the covenant to lead astray, and you have put a stumbling block before your brothers. I am sad to say that the conclusion you have come to is not from scripture but out of fear or pressure from your community. The innate fear Jews feel when they think of replacement shows no bounds. There is no replacement but like you said they loathe the thought of Joes coming home. Well, the stumbling block of return is now so great, you have now given Joseph carte blanche permission and have now sanctioned their sin and idolatry. Thank you very much. You said yourself you are not in the religion business, well, with this you have made yourself Pope. As much as we who have been working for the betterment of Brit AM have been now undercut by our supplier of good information and this completely ruins it for me, a Joe working for the return of my brothers. I can't believe it. You are teaching apostasy. I am sad to see your fear. You must do teshuvah and change your position on this because The Almighty wants them to come home to the Covenant. Covenant relationship was suspended, you are correct, but the fact that Brit AM exists at all, should be proof that you are part of the grass roots movement for them to repent and return now and begin the process of coming closer and closer to Judah. There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever for the tribes to give up Christmas and Easter and Sunday worship if the Torah is only for the Jews. They really think the God of the bible wants them to do these things. You are the beginning of knowing who they are, surely you must also know what they need to do next, WRONG. Teshuvah in false things is a good start. Sabbath should be first since it reflects the true G-d and not the Sun god you have given them permission to stay worshipping on SUN-day and now will remain glorifying, thank you very much. Since you weren't born a Joe and can't see from this perspective, let me tell you from a Joe's perspective, the ONLY motivation one has to follow Covenant/Torah is because they learn WHO they are and are OBLIGATED by the Ancestors that stood at the foot of Mt. Sinai just as Judah's Fathers were and took the oath, of "those who are here and those who are not standing here today." With one stroke of the pen you have eliminated your brother Joseph. Curiously, there has to be a beginning of return as it is prophesied, but at this point you obviously have destroyed your hand in that chance since you refuse to call the tribes to teshuvah. I am sad to see your detractors have victory over your work. Maybe Yah knew what would be in your heart and cut the finances as you lay a block in your ten tribe brother's path to come home. He doesn't need you however, his will Be done, Blessed Be He, with or without you.
Michal
================================================
Reply:
One should distinguish between returning to the Almighty and being obliged by the commandments.
It is legitimate and for all we know in our time perhaps even necessary for "Joes" to study Torah and draw closer to the Law
observing those aspects they appreciate as well as adopting some Jewish customs after modifying them to suit
their own needs.
This is part of the instinctive arousal of Joseph in our era.
It is another thing to carry out the Law as the Jews do.
In practice none of the Joes have accepted the Jewish understanding of the Law and
none attempt to fulfill it.
This applies even to those Joes who believe they are obligated by the Law.
If asked why they do not observe the Law as the Jews do they may answer that they are
not convinced that the Jewish practice is Biblical but rather an invention of man. This point can be argued.
The bottom line however is that even if these "Joes" were to accept that the Jewish Practices are according to
the Biblical Injunctions they would not want to fulfill all of them and neither, we suspect, would they be able to do so.
To keep the Law as the Jews do requires EITHER having been brought up in it OR being fanatically dedicated to it and having an exceptional personality
OR (as applies in most cases) spending a good time learning it and then being part of a community that also keeps it.
In other words you do not really want to and neither possibly are you capable of keeping the Law as the Jews who "sit in the seat of Moses" do.
Why therefore be offended when someone such as myself says that according to the sources as we understand them you
are not obliged
to keep the Law as the Jews do anyway?
At least you are not so obliged at present.
In the future you may be but then the situation will be different as prophesied.
This does not mean that you are not obliged to lead a religious life and try to draw as close as
you possibly can to Biblical outlook and practice.
Even if you disagree with us on this point.
Leave us alone on the subject.
Our task is to research the whereabouts of the Lost Ten Tribes and spread the knowledge, the three Rs of Brit-Am.
It may be better for everyone that our attitude to "Joes" keeping the Law is as it is instead of having us divert our own attention and that of others
with all kinds of theological claims etc.
Do you want your dentist to take an interest in horticulture?
God bless you
Yair
See what we wrote as an Introduction to this subject where what we said above is amplified and expressed in line with Biblical Sources.
d. Continuation of the Discussion:
Remarks with Brit-Am Answers
From: Jim Wright
Greetings Yair Davidiy -
It seems to me that the "Noahide Laws" are a clear example of "violence" being done to God's Law:
Her prophets are light and treacherous persons: her priests have polluted the sanctuary, they have done violence to the law. Zephaniah 3.4
And when the LORD says not to take away from His Law it doesn't seem like a good idea to do so:
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you. Deuteronomy 4.2
The Sabbath was created at the creation - long before there was an "Israel", "Jew" or Priest or Sage.
And the Sabbath was commanded to be obeyed before the ancient Israelites entered into any covenant with the LORD in the Wilderness of Sin.
And while they say the Sabbath wasn't commanded before Mnt. Sinai they also say the Abraham observed it, before Mnt. Sinai.
Conversion to serving the LORD is not the same as converting to Judaism, I can testify to this personally.
I have received the Holy Spirit and I will die before I ever go back back to paganism or convert to Judaism.
But all who serve the LORD are to observe the Sabbath:
1. Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2. Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5. Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7. Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
8. The Lord God, which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. Isaiah 56.1-8
And Sunday is idolatry - commanded by Baal, the Sun God.
If the Rabbis are correct then why did God punish the Lost Tribes at all - by Jewish Law they were already gentiles before being punished. And why is He denouncing their lack of Sabbath observance hundreds of years later?
A person can not be unconverted from Israelite birth - even if they want it:
32. And that which cometh into your mind shall not be at all, that ye say, We will be as the heathen, as the families of the countries, to serve wood and stone.
33. As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: Ezekiel 20.32+33
God is keeping track of every Lost Israelite - Judah and Joseph
All will convert - a few now - the firstfruits - the many during the LORD's rule on Earth, for when the graves are opened all will understand:
12. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13. And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14. And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord. Ezekiel 37.12-14
The gathering of the outcasts of Joseph has begun - it is made up of those who have received the Holy Spirit and have repented of the pagan traditions we have been deceived into, Sunday, Xmas, Ishtar, Lent, etc.
We are not converting to Judaism.
Only those who serve the LORD will accept the eternal perpetual sign of being His.
Only those called by God would even consider doing so.
And they ALL DO.
Whether of Judah or Joseph.
God Bless -
Jim Wright
Reply:
The Noachide Laws are those laws incumbent upon every human being. They are named after Noah who in effect was the ancestor of all living humanbeings today.
They are in effect general principles that in application produce numerous laws.
The Noachide Principles include:
Prohibition on idolatry.
Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
Prohibition on murder.
Prohibition on robbery and theft.
Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.
Brit-Am DOES NOT usually discuss the Noachide Laws and related matters because Brit-Am does not see itself as a
religious organization and ALSO because we do not view them as especially pertinent to the Lost Ten Tribes to whom we are ministering.
The Sabbath is a sign between the Almighty and the Children of Israel.
[Exodus 31:13] SPEAK THOU ALSO UNTO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, SAYING, VERILY MY SABBATHS YE SHALL KEEP: FOR IT IS A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND YOU THROUGHOUT YOUR GENERATIONS; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD THAT DOTH SANCTIFY YOU.
We personally believe that ONLY Israelites were commanded to keep the Sabbath.
You may wish to believe differently but if so that should not concern Brit-Am one way or the other.
You interpret Isaiah 56:1-8 as a call for Israel to keep the Sabbath before the ingathering. Fair enough. You may be right or another explanation be valid.
It could also be that in the End Times some degree of Sabbath keeping is required or at least to be recommended.
Alternately the whole passage may apply to Judah?
This is how we understood Isaiah ch.56:
We are called upon to do justice (56:1). The Sabbath must be kept (56:2). The stranger who joins themself to Israel (Isaiah 56:3 cf. Ezekiel 47:22) will be counted as one of Israel (Isaiah 56:4-7). Isaiah 56:8 was understood to refer to the Order of Redemption: First Judah will be ingathered, then those who remain from the Lost Ten Tribes will be brought back by stages.
The Lost Ten Tribes were exiled because they went in the ways of the nations around them, worshipped idols, committed human sacrifice, and engaged in abominations (2-Kings chs.17 and 18).
Assumedly they also did not keep the Sabbath but that is not mentioned.
A distinction should also be made between someone who knows for sure that they are of Israelite or Jewish origin and someone who feels certain of it but lacks definite proof as is the case for most Ephraimites.
What however is the disagreement between us?
You say you are not about to convert and we say you do not need to but for some reason you sound offended!
Remember the nursey rhyme,
"No-body asked you, Sir, she said"?
This absolutely took my breath away. We ... ALL OF US ... are obligated to
keep God's law IF we want His Covenant Blessing ... Exodus 23:20-23,
Lev 26, and Deut 28 .
ALL twelve tribes were put into bondage because they quit keeping God's
law.
Look at King Solomon for example. He quit keeping the law, and God brought
the division of the tribes because of it, and then into captivity for all
twelve tribes BECAUSE they QUIT keeping His law.
And it is still the same today, none of us have arrived, but many of us are
working on it. II Chron 7:14 ... IF MY people ... are you (any of us)
God's people? Then we have to follow Him and keep His commandments. There
is not one "Bible" or "law" for the Jews and Benjamin and another "Bible" or
law for the other 10 tribes. There is ONE ... that law was given to the
WHOLE 12 tribes before there even was a division called Jews.
As for me and my house, we will attempt to walk in the Covenant God
made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that is Hebraic, not Jewish ... and
that applies to all tribes, not just two.
....I greatly appreciate you Yair for the fantastic research you have done that is helping all of us get back
to our Hebraic roots ... not Jewish roots ... Hebraic, and therefore
God's Covenant laws.
So all of us should take this VERY important subject matter ... of higher
importance than of which tribe we are ... before our God and ask Him to
cause HIS WORDS to rise up in us. HE never changes, though man's opinions
do.
And yes, I do think a man can know the Law and also know horticulture :-)
... Nickie
Reply:
See what we want as an Introduction to this subject. We repeat the differences between us are largely a matter of Semantics.
Anna wrote:
Shalom Yair,
I appreciate your objective to stay with the 3 R's of Brit-Am's role in bringing back the lost 10 tribes.
But going trough the Parasha [Weekly Torah Portion] this week, I came across B'reshit (Gen.) 26:5 Where it says;
Abraham obeyed (shema) my voice (kol), and kept (also observed) preserve, guard; shamar) my charge (mishmereth)
My commandments (mitzvah) my statutes (chuggah) and my laws (taroti).
Abraham may have obeyed Hashem voluntary, but wasn't he blessed because of it?
Perhaps returning Ephrayim are learning to keep Torah according to Divine Inspiration also?
Or would you say Abraham was more inspired than the average Joe of today?
Kind regards, and blessings.
Anna.
Reply:
You are quoting Rabbinical Midrashic-style Exegesis. This was not meant to be taken literally.
On the other hand, your point helps proves the point we were making.
Those who are probably Israelites by descent (i.e. Joseph) in our time may well be blessed if they adopt aspects
of the Law. This is different than assuming that they are positively obliged to do so at present.
Would you really want to be in principle liable for death by stoning for lighting a fire on the Seventh Day?
Nowadays such punishments are not carried out for technical reasons but the liability remains.
From: "Mentell, Ken (K.)"
Yair never responded when I emailed him. He did say to the reading list that we cannot be as righteous as Judah with a clear bent of making us 2nd grade citizens to Judah.
He says, "that even if these "Joes" were to accept that the Jewish Practices are according to the Biblical Injunctions they would neither want to fulfill all of them and neither, we suspect, would they be able to do so.".
WOW. Foot in mouth. This is one of our spokesmen? I think not. ... We are not Noahides. We are Joseph, a Full Son of Israel, Inheritor of the laying on of hands and Blessing and Birthright of Israel.
Don't forget it.
Reply:
We reply mostly to letters sent in good faith and reasonably respectful manner.
We do not consider "Joes" second grade citizens but rather members of the Lost Tribes.
In our Introduction to this article we quote from the Malbim who foresaw a higher-level task for Joseph than for Judah.
Our book "Role to Rule." is dedicated to the special role of Joseph in addition to which our other works emphasize other aspects of it.
From: Jonathan Tillotson
Dear Yair,
I would like to express my support and admiration for the way in which you responded to Michal's lively criticism of you in his letter. The mere fact that you published his letter was interesting and commendable enough; even more so was your calm and detailed response to it. I see what you mean - if we are to accept that Northern Kingdom Israelites (or 'Joes' as it were) are to be obliged to follow the law, this will in no way necessarily imply that they will then proceed to follow it according to Jewish observances, if I understand that correctly. A good point. Another issue of course may very well concern the touchy question of Jesus. Even if 'Joes' did observe all the requirements of the law according to Jewish practice and yet were also Christian with respect to the messianic claims regarding Jesus, that would be yet another problem, would it not? If indeed one wanted to make a problem out of it I mean?
And u r not trying to make a problem out of it - that is your whole point.
Far better I agree to not focus on these theological issues on the Brit Am website, since they are indeed not relevant to the questions surrounding the identity of the lost tribes (the 'three R's'). Perhaps there can be another website for pure theological inter-confessional dialogue..I suspect there already are many (though i guess most may be somewhat unpleasant?).
I have a suspicion that may or not apply in all cases. This is that many people seem often to suppose that there is only 'one way' in which human beings can have 'any kind' of' relationship with God. Any kind at all.With the fires of hell growling hungrily in the background, ready to consume anyone who is not on the specifically designated 'only path', it can understandably become a matter of real urgency for those who want to save others from those flames that they urge those not on that path to get on it -and quickly. This, I think, can explain a lot of the sometimes lively inability to recognise that it is possible, as to my reading you seem to have accepted, that God can have more than one type of relationship with human beings, as well as with the various Children of Israel. As a 'mixed triber' if I might coin that expression (Jewish mother, Josephite father- if I get that right) maybe this 'dual' way of thinking has come more easily to you than to some. Anyway, to say again, I really do admire your balanced reply, and commend the way you did not descend to any retaliatory words. I have always liked this spirit behind your words, even if I have not agreed with or been able to accept everything you have said.
Jonathan
From: Charlotte Mecklenburg
Dear Yair,
After reading the discussion on keeping the covenant,
I must encourage you that what you say is very good. I agree that as we read the Bible and study it
God is able to help us know when and how to keep the covenant so that he is pleased with our baby steps.
That has been my life since I was about 40 years of age. He revealed Shabbat first to me and then later something else and with each thing he gives me the meaning and purpose either by hearing a Jew speak about it or just personal insight. But never the less, I would find it extremely difficult to do everything the ways the Jews do because I did not grow up in that kind of setting and it does take a life time to get it right I am sure from what I have read. To understand that God really wants a contrite spirit and one that desires to learn and follow the word and love it as Palm 119 reads will keep us on the path toward drawing near to our heavenly Father. Thank for you answer to the discussion.
Charlotte Mecklenburg
From: Ben Zentgraf
On point # 2,
you will be do well not to get involved too deeply. I support your attitude
with the 3 d -es.
Getting involved in that debate brings a Jew into the religious doctrinal
struggle between different opinions amongst the 10-Israelites - not a place
you'd like to be, I'm sure.
Religiously speaking, it would be nice if some guidelines with regards to
attempting to fulfill closer Torah-live could be illustrated from Brit-Am's
side - but that would most probably have to be by teaching methods of
approach rather than doctrine.
Keep well,
Shabbat shalom.
Benayahu
From: Ron Hoover
Yair,good response to Michal,one can't shove the Laws of God
down the Lost Tribes throats,you can present it to them,if they
act on it fine,all the cajoling and pressuring to make the Tribes
obey just ain't gonna work in this age.There is a Spiritual Blindness
upon Israel now,they are incapable of seeing unless God opens
their eyes.
When the Millenium and the Kingdom of God arrives to this earth,
that is the time when God will command his peoples to obey all
His Laws!
Ron Hoover
From: Michelle b:
In response to "M" and to Yair's answer to his letter:
It is not about the "Jewish" understanding of the Law. It is about relationship with YHWH. Every Israelite out there who has discovered who they are, will come to this knowlegde and understanding if the Almighty One allows it. He allows it by the constant reading of scripture.
Daily reading and daily talks with Him will open up one's access to the Holy Spirit to reveal the Word to those who thirst for it. I must reiterate this: The re-gathering of Israel is a heart thing, and not necessarily a pilgrimage to the land of Israel. Let's face it, YHWH told Abraham that he would be the father of many nations. There is no physical way in this world as we know it, for all tribes of Israel to be gathered to the promised land. Therefore, it must be that in your heart you are gathered to Him. It will only be after the new heaven and the new earth and the new Jerusalem appear, that YHWH will make it possible for us to be in the land.
Perhaps the subject of anyone outside of the Jews following the Law should be left alone. Each person should come to this on their own through the heart search of the Sacred Word. Our job then as enlightened ones of Israel would be to encourage our fellow mislead believers to read more, pray more and then we pray for them to have the Word revealed. YHWH will reveal Himself to those who reach out to Him. This is like any relationship. You cannot get to know someone, they will not reveal themselves to you unless you reach out and make your effort to do so. Only through this process will the one you pursue, then reveal themselves to you. So it is with our Father.
Blessings, michelle b.
From: Ruchamah
Hi Yair,
I have to take the time to agree with Michal, not completely, in that I know that your work has JUST begun. But I dont think it would hurt the aims of Brit am at ALL to ENOCOURAGE 10 Tribers to keep as much of Torah as they possibly can: It is with the DOING that understanding comes! To AVOID this encouragement means that u are giving tacit approval to pagan practices for YOUR BRETHREN. Please reconsider your position.
Also, 10 Tribers may very well determine their own way to obey Torah at some point. This remains to be seen, but i wouldnt utterly discount that possibility.
With love for Zion,
Ruchamah
From: Dennis Tate
Shalom Mr. Davidiy:
In my opinion, you did an excellent job of answering the question of us Joe's being observant to the law!
Although I observe some elements of the law, I certainly cannot say that
I attempt to observe the law even 5% or 10% as much as many Orthodox or
Lubavichter or Karaite Jews do.
On the other hand it is kind of interesting that a non-observant Jewish friend
of mine considers me to be almost the same as the Orthodox Jews, who he
knows very well. He was pretty surprised to find out that I go without food or
even water for Yom Kippur and that I do build a Sukkot for the Festival of
Tabernacles.
Well said Mr. Davidiy!
Shalom.
Dennis Tate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tate4CentralNova/message/11
Dennis Tate supports Jerusalem Third Temple/ Comments by Asher Manthany.
From: Dennis McGinlay
Dear Yair
Michael's diatribe on the keeping of the 'law' by the 10 Tribes misses the point that God sent them away and in his own good time will bring them back. I have nowhere read in the bible that his prerequisite for their return is the keeping of Torah. Who knows what he will require of a reunited Israel? Let us wait on the Lords will instead of trying to second guess it. Keep up your good and valuable work.
Shalom
Dennis McGinlay
From: Merv Martin
Thanks Michael.
Exactly what I believe!
Also if Yair wants to accept the derogatory term "jew" as his title so be be it BUT we are the Descendants of the Righteous Joseph and will not accept the derogatory title of joes.
Does Yair believe that we are not required to swing a chicken around our heads to have our sins removed as they do?
May God be praised for that!
Or string a piece of nylon cord around blocks of pagan houses to increase the size of their house so that they can carry whatever on Shabbat? Again praises to the Almighty for taken us out of darkness into His glorious Light.
I just wonder, if Yair will let this be printed because he will not allow other replies to him from me, be published for others to see.
Thanks
Ephraim Flyger Martin
Reply:
The term "Joe" was first proposed by Dell Griffin but we adopted it and have used it from time to time, for some time. Until now nobody protested so we assumed it was acceptable!
See:
"Brit-Am Now"-752
#4. A new term needed? Something instead of "Joe" or "Ephraimite"?
If one does a search for the term "Joe" on our site tens of examples will turn up used both by ourselves and others.
As for swinging a chicken around your head (something we advise against) or anything else the whole point of what we wrote was to advise you not to.
Concerning the nylon cord I personally think it a brilliant idea but not everybody does it.
I assume that if you ever become Jewish (and we advise you not to!) you will join the camp that enjoys making life difficult just for the sake of it.
Whatever the case, good luck to you either way.
From: Paula
Hello Yair,
I agree with you. I believe that the ten tribes are not obligated to take on Jewish Halacha.
Ezekiel seems to say that Israel will not "convert" under Judah's covenant,
but I believe that Michal is right that Israel must return to the (written) Torah covenants; circumcision, the Sabbath,
the Feasts.
In Leviticus 26 Israel is told that they will be removed from the land if they do not follow the commands and violate the covenants. We are told in Deuteronomy 30 how we can be regathered.
The covenants that I mentioned above are signs between The ALMIGHTY and his chosen people; they are also signs of the chosen people's connection to the land. If we were kicked out because we did not keep the covenants, why would we be welcomed back while we continue in the same sins as our fathers?
I hope that you will still write your article on why we are not obligated to the law under Jewish Halacha.
I hope that you will also put a small section in it on how we Israelites are to fulfill:
Deuteronomy 30:2.
And shall return to Eternal your Mighty One, and shall obey his voice according to all that I command you this day, you and your children, with all your heart, and with all your soul...
I pray you have a blessed Sabbath,
Paula
From: Linda Bedwell
Shalom Yair,
I am not surprised that you would say that the ten tribes do not have to return to the Torah at this time.
You may be rabbinically correct, but you are scripturally incorrect!
Ezekiel 11:15 KJV “Son of man, thy brethren, even thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto
whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem have said, Get you far from the Lord: unto us is this land given in possession.”
If you check v. 5, you will see that this was spoken to the house of Israel, of which many of us are.
The Scriptures clearly show that the Holy One calls people to teshuvah, and there are those who hear His call. HE calls for His people to
repent, turn to Him and be forgiven.
Isa. 44:22 “Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; I have formed thee:
for you are my servant; O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. I have blotted out as a thick cloud, thy sins:
return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Jer. 3:22 “Return, ye backsliding children,
and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the Lord our God.”
This was spoken to the house of Israel v. 20-21.
In Mal. 4:4 we are told to return to the Torah of Moshe.
Moshe wrote down the Torah (Ex. 24:4), every word that the Holy One spoke to him for the children of Israel, all 12 tribes,
not just the house of Judah.
Joshua 8:35 "There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read
not before all the congregation of Israel, wth the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that
were conversant among them."
We were told in Deut. 4:2 "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you."
It is to the Torah of Moshe and to the Holy One who gave this Torah to which we all are being called to return. We are not being called to return to christianity with their pagan traditions, nor are we being called to return to rabbinical takenot (enactments, reforms) and mitzvot derabanan (commandments of our rabbis). There is one Torah for Israel and for the stranger (Ex. 12:49), whether a gentile or the lost 10 tribes. I love the Holy One of Israel and His Torah and the Bridal Covenant He gave to all of His people, Israel, and for any stranger that would want to sh'ma, sh'mar and asah the voice of the Holy One. Respectfully submitted, Linda Bedwell
Reply:
Linda Shalom,
Again we are dealing with Semantics. To whom are the verses referring and at what stage of their existence or future development? We accept that the Lost Ten Tribes are called upon to repent and to return. The return however at least at this stage does not seem to involve a full acceptance of the Law.
I think if you read through all that we have written above and what others have said on the subject you will agree with us on this point.
From: Tessa in New Zealand
Subject: Obligation to the Law
Shalom Yair
This issue is very, very important to those who believe they are non-Jewish Israelites. ...Some have fully converted to Judaism which now makes them Jews and not Joes. (It could be argued that there had better not be too many who take this course as it would deplete Joseph's house!)
The Noachide laws are essentially a distillation of some Torah principles but they provide no positive instruction for daily worship....
Perhaps the way forward is to accept that Judah has one understanding of obligation to the Law, one that requires rabbinical supervision. Joes may well simply choose to obey the Law of Moses because God has one Law for his people and he desires them to obey him. Either way, it makes such people whether Jews or Joes, distinctive to the rest of the world by their lifestyle as one people, whatever their understanding of obligation to the Law. Above all we need to be sensitive to each other's perspective - a family reunion after such a long time over such a bitter original dispute requires much patience and forbearance on both sides. It was a decision of man to separate us; it will take Messianic wisdom to weld us together again. In the meantime we should not squabble over our different habits - they are not the core of what makes us family.
Blessings - Tessa
Conclusion:
We can agree to disagree.
A large portion of what we appear to disagree upon is merely a question of Semantics.
At all events Brit-Am has its own task of the Three Rs and a Mandate to carry them out.
Beyond this, it is not within the jurisdiction of Brit-Am to make decisions and neither would we want to.
Part of the difficulty lies with Epohraimites ignoring the need for the Three Rs of Brit-Am to be applied and assuming that they may go ahead as if they already have been!
Eventually Joseph and Judah will re-unite and then the question of Religion will be resolved.
Until Re-unification takes place the best thing we can do is to work towards it.
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