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New Joseph Forum no.10 

Ephraimites, Two Houses, Joes, Ten Tribes Teachings
30 August 2009, 10 Elul 5769
1. Roger Malone: Losing hope in Brit-Am messages
2. Is Brit-Am Perceived  as #destroying the "gospel of grace"#??
3.Background to the Poem Judah says not "No"!


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1. Roger Malone: Losing hope in Brit-Am messages
Note: The letter below has been heavily edited by us.
We believe we have captured the original intention but may not have done so.

I have tried to ask you simple questions and reach out because you claim you want to reconcile thing with lost Israelites, but what kind of Isrealites are you really looking for, we as the true Israelites are trying to understand what you are looking for , we have faith in [the ALMIGHTY] but the old testament and prophets and the whole scriptures have revealed to us our faith in [our Christian Messiah] is the son of David, we will never change this view because scripture backs us up and cannot be denied.

It seems you are only looking through a key hole trying to only find Jewish people whereas True Israelites were Hebraic and not Jewish. We were Hebrews before the Assyrians took us into excise, but after Babylon came the start of Judaism and the Babylonian Talmud as the main doctrine of the Jewish people.

Look at the intent of your search, and maybe don't just think all Israelites will be of the Jewish faith and act the same as your orthodox views, as you have noted in your research the Israelites were different in religious practice. I have almost decided to stop reaching out to you because It seems by the lack of your response to me [with my] telling you of different groups who are living the traditional way of Israelites of the old covenant.

If [your aim is] bringing the 2 [sections of the Israelite] tribes together [is your intention] your actions are not showing it very well.
If are to be brothers then you are acting like the brothers of Joseph casting those who are different into pits and covering them up.

Does Brit am really want to seek the lost tribes or to bring them into the mold of some mixture of your faith, because as me and all the other that have reached out to you feel that Brit-Am is just [like] other religious Jewish groups.

I have already found 2-3 groups of us in the USA. Your own words said there, if your groups is not seriously wanting to find and be reconciled to Judah as scripture claims then save your group a lot of money and just keep writing the great history books and just stop the search.
By our faiths we will stand and if the older is to serve the younger then maybe the old should try to learn what the younger could show and teach. You have done a good job writing books but the books should not be the main goals bringing us [together].  You will have to just wait till after this [coming] war that is about to try all of Judah and Israel.
War is about to come to the Land of Israel. Without us to stand with you as all of Israelites then your blood will be shed.

Obama and Tony Blair are preparing to force the Land of Israel [out of the hands of Judah] to make peace but this is a false peace treaty and they will and are planning to give Jerusalem back to the Palestinians, by your willingness or by force.

Choose [whether] the beliefs you have been speaking [to us] is the main goal of Brit-Am or leave us alone and we will return when the Messiah returns and not until then.

Confused about your groups real intents.

The true lost tribe

Brit-Am Reply:

We found the above letter somewhat incoherent and not clear but it may give expression to things that several Ephraimites seem to have wanted to say, or may have implied, in the past.

Note: Judaism did not begin in Babylon with the Babylonian Talmud. The Talmud is derived from discussion on the Mishna that was formulated in the Land of Israel and in most cases is referenced in the Hebrew Bible!

The Message from Ephraim?
The overall message seems to be the following:
(a) Brit-Am comes across as Jewish, and as pushing the Jewish Religion.
(b) Brit-Am is not open enough to the Christian Message and to the unique perspective that Ephraimites may be able to impart.
(c) What exactly Brit-Am wants from Ephraimites is not sufficiently clear.
(d) Wars and international crises are in the offing. Judah could use the support of Joseph but in order to receive this support Judah should be more open to Joseph.

Reply to the Message.
At the beginning Brit-Am seemed to be greeted by some enthusiasm by Ephraimites who had high hopes for developing a new rapport with Judah.
On the one hand we have caused some disappointment due to what is perceived as an unnecessary rigidity in doctrinal matters ?? or personality traits??
On the other hand,
We have, in our opinion, contributed much  towards Biblical and Historical understanding of the subject as evidenced by the number of Ephraimite sites that use our information, usually without accrediting it to us.

(a) Brit-Am has no conscious agenda to promote Judaism as an alternative faith. We rely on Jewish Sources concerning some aspects of Biblical Interpretation but we refer to these sources as objectively valid in their own right. Since we deal mainly with the Hebrew Bible (i.e. the "Old" Testament) there should be need for tension.

(b) It may be that we should be more open but so far our Biblical Commentaries have been getting along just fine.
We trust that our Ephraimite subscribers will be making their own discernment, taking what they need, and rejecting what they feel no need for.

(c) We ourselves are not sure what the next steps should be but for the time being Brit-Am has a clear-cut Mandate.
The Brit-Am Ten Tribes Movement has its Three Rs: Research, Recognition, Reconciliation.
This is already a handful.
What exactly Brit-Am wants from Ephraimites may not be sufficiently clear but neither is it exactly lucid as to what the expectations of Ephraimites from Brit-Am are!
What do you really want from us?
People do things (get married, start work, etc) with the realization that this is what they should do though it may not always be clear to them at the time what the end result should be.

(d) Judah Needs Joseph through the national entities that Joseph now dominates.
The State of Israel needs ongoing support from the USA in many fields especially in the supply of arms in case of war etc.
Other "Israelite" nations (such as the UK, Sweden, etc) may often be against the State of Israel but the potential for the antagonism to be moderated and even reversed is always there. If you are inhabitant of such countries you can help through sending e-mail letters to you leaders, etc. This often does have some effect and is important.
The State of Israel DOES NOT NEED Ephraimite volunteer soldiers to serve in the Israeli Army!
At least not at present.
We do not really need Ephraimites in Israel though those who come as volunteers or tourists are welcome and as individuals often do make contributions of value that are appreciated.

2. Is Brit-Am Perceived  as #destroying the "gospel of grace"#??
From: lyn smith
Subject: Fw: Weekly Portion: Shoftim

Greetings Brit - Am
In case we neglected to forward this our independent critique of your site.
Here it is.
Some of your historical information we enjoy and appreciate
Arthur - Howard : Savage - Israel
Truth - Seeker

----- Original Message ----- From: "Des Scahill"
Subject: Re: Weekly Portion: Shoftim


Hi Arfa,

BritAm is an organisation run by orthodox Jews.

Their aim is to restore the 'lost tribes' from Christianity
BACK to true Judaism

In so doing, they adopt portions of the same arguments used
by anti-
semitics eg. stuff about Khazars etc.

In 'spiritual terms' here is the 'coming and going' principle being

Either A - convince true
christians that jews are 'bad', that christians 'replace' jews, are the 'new Israel,  are intended to 'rule things',, take 'world dominion' on behalf of Christ,  and so promote anti-semitism by removing christian support for jewish people

or B  - the descendants of lost tribes have all become christians scattered across a number of countries,  need to be restored,  so there is to be 'fusion' of 'old testament law' with 'gospel' as  christians return to their 'true jewish roots'

And so 'grace' gets gradually replaced with 'legalism',
christians become 'pharisees', legislating for righteousness, quoting Old Testament scriptures as their 'justification' as they go,  looking for political influence and power.  Seemingly wanting 'righteousness' and 'good things' for society, but actually destroying the "gospel of grace" as they go.

And for each of A and B there are numerous variants around. So in the minds of the existing unsaved, made difficult for them to work out what
christianity actually is.  It all looks so confused to them.

satan is subtle.



Brit-Am Reply:
We are not about to get ourselves involved in a discussion of Christian Theology.
Our aim is NOT  #to restore the 'lost tribes' from Christianity BACK to true Judaism#.
We are not saying that this would not be a worthy thing to do just that we do not intend to do it and doubt that anyone else will in the foreseeable future.
Our understanding of Prophecy says that the Lost Ten Tribes will remain Christians up unto the End Times and that Divine Providence has a reason for this.
It is not our task to change this matter nor do we have authority or ability to do so.
Just as many Ephraimite Christians respect Jews as they are and do not want to convert them to Christianity so too do we not wish to change the religions of Christians.

A sentence concerning us in the message above is:
##B  - the descendants of lost tribes have all become christians scattered across a number of countries,  need to be restored,  so there is to be 'fusion' of 'old testament law' with 'gospel' as christians return to their 'true jewish roots'##
As far as we are concerned the sentence should be divided thusly:
(a) - the descendants of lost tribes have all become Christians scattered across a number of countries,  need to be restored,
(b) so there is to be 'fusion' of 'old testament law' with 'gospel' as christians return to their 'true jewish roots'##

We believe in (a) and if some Christians wish to deduce (b) from it that is their business though we do view such a phenomenon favorably.

Brit-Am says that (a) with minor modifications is true.
We would reformulate (a) to say:
The descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes have mostly become Christians, are concentrated in a number of specific countries,  will ultimately be restored, and there is a need to spread this message.

We understand how some Christian Theologians may have difficulty with this message but it needs to be dealt with one way or another.
We request (or challenge?) all they who feel themselves concerned to examine the matter as objectively as possible.
Decide whether or not it is credible and proceed from there.

3.Background to the Poem
Judah says not "No"!

Ephraimites often complain that Jews do not relate to them seriously and do not recognize their probable ancestral connection to Israel. This is a complicated issue but at all events the first step should be to spread knowledge of the Ephraimite ancestral connection. This is what Brit-Am, the Ten Tribe Movement, is doing. This ultimately would help the Ephraimite cause both with Judah and with other descendants of Joseph who are not yet aware of their Israelite origins. Despite our efforts Ephraimites are not on the whole rushing to help Brit-Am in its endeavors. Just the opposite.

Judah says not "No"!
He just does not know
Who you are
Think of it Joe
Are you on par?
To make it show?
Are you aware?
That it is not fair
To complain
of pain
That no-one knows of
Or can do anything for
And you do not share
Or seek to prove
Your Ancestry?
And of those (such as us)
who do
work for you
You make no fuss
and fail to send
the modest stipend
needed to continue
and move on through
With our daily due.


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