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New Joseph Forum no.9 

Ephraimites, Two Houses, Joes, Ten Tribes Teachings
16 July 2009, 26 Tammuz 5769
1. The
Khazars went through an Intermediate Stage Before Returning to Judaism!
2. Is the
Ephraimite Mass-Acceptance of their Ancestry Taken too Much for Granted?
3. Query from New Zealand Regarding Judah Seeking the LTTs in Other Places.
4. Owen Murphy: Joes, Torah, and the Land of Israel
5. Jews Cannot Become Christians and Remain Jewish!
Extract followed by Brit-Am Note.


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1. The Khazars went through an Intermediate Stage Before Returning to Judaism!
New Joseph Forum no.8
Amnon Goldberg Queries Brit-Am on Religious Matters.
Amnon Goldberg asked:

#Being that the Ten Lost Tribes long ago acquired the Halachic status of "complete gentiles", what is your advice to a white person of European or American descent who strongly feels "in his bones" that he is connected to "Israel"? That he commence Halachic conversion to become a full "Yehudi"? Or remain a Noahide? Or might there a stage in between, pending the Messianic reunification of Yehuda with the Lost Tribes? #

We replied that we do not know and we do not.
We suggested that such a question might well be a subject for consideration in the future though we would prefer personally not to be involved
in discussion of the matter.
Nevertheless it is worth mentioning in this context that the Khazars did apparently pass through such a stage.
In our book,
"The Khazars. Tribe 13"
It is related how the Khazars were part of the Lost Ten Tribes. Eventually they converted to Judaism and became part of Judah. There (as described primarily by Abraham Polak, "Kuzaria", 1949, in Hebrew) was however an intermediate stage lasting for about a hundred years. During this period they remained "Gentiles" but adopted Jewish practices alongside innovations of their own. They also set up their own full-scale imitation  of the Tabernacle and offered sacrifices. Polak claims they had priests dressed in uniforms based on those of the Cohens in the Temple but made out of animal skins instead of linen as had been the practice in Jerusalem.

2. Is the Ephraimite Mass-Acceptance of their Ancestry Taken too Much for Granted?
Note we appreciate the fact that many of you have your own religions and sometimes feel a need to impart your religious insights to others including our humble selves.
This however is against our policy and the requirements of this list.
 The Updated Welcoming Message for Brit-Am Now Subscription
It happens that enthusiasts let themselves be carried away and send us missionizing messages.
In some cases this has required us to delete the relevant offenders from our list.

Below is a more gentile [i.e. "genteel" not gentile or perhaps both?] section of a letter sent to us (one of several from the same person) claiming that the answer to all our troubles is contingent on us seeing the light as he projects it.

We are quoting the extract for general amusement and also since it brings up points we address in the Brit-Am Reply.

From: raymond l.
##Your work is a good thing, but I know that you are puzzled why something so obvious to you, seems incredulous to others who seem intelligent and educated. You have carefully explained simple history to them and their response has been a blank stare. Some have not only rejected basic historical facts, but have even thought you crazy or obsessed. ...There is very reasonable explanation why your message seems to fall on deaf ears, and I will be glad to explain it... And by the way, there are hundreds of thousands of people who know the true identity of the lost  tribes. But, they are located primarily in the English-speaking nations. The identity of modern-day Israel is not that big a secret outside of Judea. But, few truly understand the spiritual significance of this knowledge.
Yair. I know the Bible better than you do...You are engaged in an  enterprise where you are trying to teach others and you are in financial distress. I offered the explanation for your  difficulties which apparently you reject! I am also disappointed that someone who wants to teach is so unwilling to learn?! ...While your message is true and powerful, you lack UNDERSTANDING, which is why more people don't listen. ##

Brit-Am Reply:

Apparently whatever difficulties we may have will have to be solved without benefit of your assistance.
You say:
## there are hundreds of thousands of people who know the true identity of the lost tribes ##
This stands to reason.
In the past there were several impressive authorities on the subject whose works reached many.
H.W. Armstrong and his group and the groups that sprang out of them also did much to spread the idea.
We have Steven Collins and others today.
The Brit-Am Movement is not the only entity spreading this message.
Even so, the feeling is that more could be done and that Ephraimites in general are taking the matter too much for granted and may not really by interested in spreading this aspect of their belief.
Why is this?
The Brit-Am Ten Tribes Movement believes that Christinaity has a role to play prior to the final Redemption and after that we shall all see what will be. We also go out of our way not to offend Christianity while remaining true to ourselves.
Nevertheless we have a feeling as if a section of Ephraim is "punishing" us by not supporting us as they well could do.

3. Query from New Zealand Regarding Judah Seeking the LTTs in Other Places.
Rob Moore wrote:
Re:  Judah hunts for remnants of exiled Judah - calling them th e "10 Lost tribes" - The Ten Lost Tribes Challenge

Judah hunts for remnants of exiled Judah ? calling them the ?10 Lost tribes? - The Ten Lost Tribes Challenge


With regard to the identity of the lost 10 tribes I find it very interesting that your research works are not referred to at all in the articles recently published in the Jerusalem post, which is a statement of a certain sector of
Judah?s intellectual curiosity and entrepreneurial tourism:

 If you haven't already seen the collection of articles, you can do so at:

Shows URLS entitled:
The Ten Lost Tribes Challenge
A multinational initiative that will provide the public with a thrilling and unique intellectual experience.
2009 Expedition to the Communities of Beta Israel in Ethiopia
13 days in the footsteps of: The Queen of Sheba to the Land of Cush.
2009 Expedition to the Descendants of the Tribes of Menashe & Ephraim in the Indian Subcontinent
13 days in the Indian states of Mizoram, Manipur and Assam.
2010 Expedition to the Shinto Descendants of Bnei Ephraim in Japan
13 days in Japan with Dr. Avigdor Shachan.
 The Ten Lost Tribes - A Background By DR. EYAL BEERI


 My understanding from the teachings of Moses is that Genesis 45 highlights that it is Joseph who revealed himself to Judah during a great famine that almost destroys Jacob's house, and then it was Joseph who had a plan of protection and deliverance which he offered to the whole house of Jacob, which included Judah, but Judah has some real soul searching to do on the subject of Joseph's identity and Judah's love for his father is tested in the process.

How do you contrast the lessons of the Torah of Moses with the emphasis of the articles published in the
Jersualem Post which appear to present Judah?s current definition of who the 10 lost tribes are and where they are to be found? 

In my understanding, because Moses taught that Joseph was hidden from Judah until he revealed himself, that in the current "10 lost tribes challenge" as published in the Jerusalem Post is a reflection that Judah approaches the whole issue of the 10 lost tribes within the framework of his own worldview and thus only sees those people who are like himself to be the lost 10 tribes. Logically this means that Judah is busy identifying remnants of himself that are yet in exile, and these people are not the lost 10 Tribes of Ephraim / Joseph.

I perceive your work to be more correct, and the fact that your work is not even mentioned by these people tells me even more that you are on the right track, and in line with the words of Moses in that Joseph must remain hidden form Judah until the appointed time.

What's your perspective?


New Zealand

Brit-Am Reply:

The Jerusalem Post does not necessarily reflect mainstream Judaism.
The articles mentioned are linked with offers of special tourist excursions each one of which
costs ca. $3000 or more.
In other words a pecuniary aspect is involved.
It makes money.
Also there exist the barrier of religion and other matters.

[Recently we received a letter from an "Ephraimite" Christian activist. She complained that Judah
is not sufficiently responsive to the "Ephraimite" Ten Tribes cause. She also admitted that she herself
had participated in two of the said excursions above or something like them.
This had probably cost her ca.$7000.
She had however never given anything to Brit-Am.
She also said:

##Also some Christians who believe in the tribes say you are one eyed regarding the tribes being of anglo/American/european origin. THis leaves out the people from Mizoram who claim to be of Ben Mannesa and the Karen people of north Thailand. The Karen people are in terrible circumstances from the government of both Berma and Thailand who will not allow them to move to the cities and get work. These are some of the barriers for people I think.##

So that is the situation.
Here we have an Ephraimite complaining in effect that Brit-Am is not succesful in spreading its message to Judah yet she herself has heavily supported the opposition (and still does conceptually) and not helped Brit-Am at all!
If Ephraimites are like that what can one expect of others?

As for the cause for the said attitude on the part of both Judah and Ephraim there is not much we can do at the moment.
We know that our current attitude and activities do have some effect.
In our opinion they who agree with us should support us more than they are doing.
God bless you
Yair Davidiy

4. Owen Murphy: Joes, Torah, and the Land of Israel
Re: Brit-A, Commentary to 1-Kings Chapter 14 part one

Hello Yair;
   Just going over again your post on  1Kgs. 14 and noting that the Mashiach Ben Joseph is to come from the offspring of Jereboam it seems to me that just as Levi was Hashems portion from the twelve tribes, and of Levi, the house of AAron, was Hashems chosen family to serve as His High Priest : in the same manner, Jacob, as you pointed out was / is Hashems portion from among all the nations of the world.
   I can understand the Gentile nations not being required to keep the whole Torah but I don't see why all of Israel, meaning all twelve of the tribes are not required to keep the entire Torah , rather than just the Noahide laws.
   You mention in britam 277 that the first thing LTT folks need to do is draw closer to Hashem. In my experience the only way to draw closer to Hashem is to follow the explicit directions Hashem gives Israel in Isaiah 59--noting that {iniquity} is lawlessness or Torah breaking.
   In all due respect to you and your diligent work and noting as you, have that immigration to Israel is or should be granted only to Torah observant Jews ; does this not relieve Joes of a basic responsibility to not only obey the law of Moses , which is open and obvious on a simple reading of Moses. Since the Temple and sacrificial system are not now functioning ; what of all the rest of Torah cannot be kept wherever one lives.
   As well : Joes should have no complaint against brother Judah ,since Judah has done and continues to do ALL the heavy lifting in the Israeli tribal territories. Let Joes move to Israel and risk their lives and families as Judah has done and continues to do while the rest of the LTT sit in self righteous judgment helping to forge world opinion against Judah.
   If Joes cannot or won't move to Israel in support and fight for their own tribal inheritance, then they/we should be totally supportive of Judahs efforts in the Land.
   Cheer, and keep up the good work,

5. Jews Cannot Become Christians and Remain Jewish!
Extract followed by Brit-Am Note:

The Biblical basis for this is I Kings 18:21. Elijah the prophet asked Jews who were beginning to slip into the worship of the idol, Baal, "How long will you go limping with two different opinions? If the God of the Jews is God, follow Him! but if Baal is God, then follow him!" Elijah told the Jews, one or the other, not both! You cannot believe in two opposite, mutually exclusive ideas simultaneously....

A Rabbi in the later Middle Ages named the
Hai Gaon, as quoted by Aderet in Responsa, VII #292, stated that a Jew who converted out of the faith was no longer a Jew. This was shared by numerous rabbis, which can be seen in the Responsa literature of Simon ben Zemah of Duran, Samuel de Medina, Judah Berab, Jacob Berab, Moses ben Elias Kapsali, and others in the Middle Ages.

Most recently this can also be seen in the
Responsa of the Satmar Rov in his Divrei Torah, Yoreh Deah #59, paragraph 5, as well as in the Responsa of Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, Even Haezer Volume 4 Number 53.

The very famous rabbi, Moses
ben Maimon, called Maimonides, also wrote that if a Jew converted to Christianity, he or she was no longer a Jew. See Maimonides, Hilchot Mamrim Perek 3, Halacha 1-3, as well as in Maimonides's Mishnah Torah, Avodat Kochavim 2:5.

Rabbi Moses Isserles demanded a formal conversion back to Judaism for those who converted out of Judaism but who then wanted to return to Judaism. He demanded ritual immersion (mikveh) and repentance before a court of three (beit din). You will see this also in other Responsa literature: Radbaz, Responsa III, 415; Moses Isserles to Yoreh Deah 268.12; and Hoffman, Melamed Leho-il II, 84.

Brit-Am Note:
The above source MAY NOT be agreed to by all authorities.
Some of you may take issue with it on Biblical or historical grounds.
Other opinions may well exist.
We ourselves are presenting this source for the sake of general knowledge.
The sources are there and they say what they say.
They are those of the highest Rabbinical authorities.
They have to be taken into consideration.
They in effect reflect reality whether one likes it or not.
Ephraimites of all persuasions should be against missionizing in any way to Jews.
Let the Messiah in the Messianic Era resolve our religious differences if we have any.


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