The Jews Need Joseph: A Debate Amongst Jewish Patriots!

Brit-Am, Movement of the Ten Tribes traces the Lost Tribes to Western Nations. We rely on Biblical and Historical Evidence as well as traditional Jewish Sources.
Brit-Am works in the fields of Research, Representation, and Reconciliation: We study the sources (Research), publish the findings (Representation), and strive to bring Judah and Joseph closer to each other (Reconciliation).
The Jews in general are prepared to listen to us but many are uncertain and often highly reserved on this issue.
The article below is based on a discussion amongst a group of Jewish Patriots in which some of the ideaological and factual difficulties involved came to the fore.

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The Jews Need Joseph and Brit-Am Teachings!
Brit-Am Discussed on Important Jewish Nationalist Blog

Introduction: The Three Letters. Brit-Am Reactions
"British Israelism" and anti-Semitism
"Brit" and "Britain"
Herbert W. Armstrong and Brit-Am
The Jews, Qualities of Esau, and Joseph
Continuation of the Thread and Brit-Am as an Issue


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The Jews Need Joseph:
A Debate Amongst Jewish Patriots!

Brit-Am Discussed on Important Jewish Nationalist Blog
Introduction: The Three Letters
The Blog JTF.ORG [The Official Forum of The Jewish Task Force and  ]
is a Jewish Site whose members mostly adhere to the beliefs of Rabbi Mair Kahane.
It looks interesting.
The beliefs of Brit-Am were mentioned in the thread
# Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers #
This centered around a discussion as to whether or not the Jews are sufficiently "tough" enough.
The Sages identified Esau (pronounced as "Esav" and equivalent with Edom) the brother of Jacob as forefather of the Romans and Germans and other warrior nations. The question is open as to whether they meant it literally (that all of them were physical descendants) or partially (only the leadership) or symbolically i.e. they had the characteristics.
It is assumed that Esau was originally supposed to have been part of the Israelite Nation but he went away and rejected participation. He became a renegade. An initiator of the thread ("Wonga") said it was a pity we had lost Esau since the Jews could have used some of the military prowess and aptitude that the assumed descendants of Esau have displayed. This opinion was applied to and debated. As is the nature of such discussions quite a few side issues were brought up and then (on the eighth page) the beliefs of Brit-Am were recalled.

Below are three letters that discussed Brit-Am and an extract from another letter on the thread that we feel is pertinent though it was not intended for us:

The first letter from Wonga mentions Brit-Am favorably:,47610.105.html
 Reply #110 on: July 09, 2010, 08:36:51 AM ?

Yair Davidy of Jerusalem, who is a shtickel [piece of, exemplification? here connoting "genuine"] Kahanist, presents much cogent Chazal [Talmudic Sages], historical, and prophetic evidence that many European nations are in fact of Ten Lost Tribe ancient Israelite origin in his books and site

The second letter criticizes Brit-Am and comes from
MassuhDGoodName (Reply 117),47610.105.html
"That "British Israelite" theory has long been discredited.

It originated in the UK in the 1800's when Imperialists ruling the world sought to "justify" their enslavement and "rape" of Asia and North America by trying to "prove" that they were in actuality the nation Israel.

The unfortunate remnants of "British
Israelism" survive today in the fringe lunatic groups calling themselves the "Christian Identity" Movement - claiming that only the pure Aryan races are the true Jews, and that all the other Jews who've been around since time immemorial are merely "imposters". 

I've read
Davidy's "research", which is really little more than a collection of neologisms at worst, and absurd folk tales at best.

Not a single shred of credible documentation to be found anywhere, yet
Davidy goes on lecture tours and speaking engagements "proving" he's found the Lost Tribes in the white people of Western Europe.

His "proofs" are based on such ridiculousness as claiming that Britain is a Lost Tribe of Israel - the "proof" offered being that since the first four letters of the English word 'Britain' spell "Brit", which when pronounced in Hebrew means 'covenant', this "proves" that the English actually are one of the Lost Tribes of Israel.


Pure foolishness by a pseudo-scholar unable to distinguish between
documentable evidence -vs- mere hearsay.

It is not to the credit of the State of Israel that so many wild eyed "
frum fakirs" have made it their home - the place is literally crawling with "Illiterati".
His "beliefs" are almost word for word the lectures of the late Herbert W. Armstrong's World Wide Church of G-d.

Proper documentation and credible research are required to "convince" me, especially when it is so obvious that someone hasn't the slightest idea of what they are claiming.

I have read all of
Davidy's material, and heard him interviewed on Arutz Sheva, and spent time on his website, and he has absolutely no credibility.


Whatever else he might be, he is not someone to be taken as a serious scholar either of Jewish or world history."

The Third letter from Wonga defends Brit-Am
Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
Reply #119 on: July 09, 2010, 10:19:05 AM.

Whilst I don't agree with all his conclusions, this is not the 'British-Israelitism' of the Victorians, & Davidy's stuff is far from being discredited, he being an Orthodox Kahanist Jew, and bringing full support from Chazal, especially the prophecies about the world-rulership of the tribe of Ephraim & the return of the TLTs
So who do you believe the
TLTs are: the Falashan negroes?! The American Indians?! The Japanese?!

Brit-Am Reactions:
Rabbi Meir Khazane (1932-1990)
was assassinated in Brooklyn, New York by an Arab Terrorist, El Sayyid Nosair, an Egyptian-born American citizen . The defence  of Nosair was funded by the Egyptian Embassy. The jury was comprised of colored people who acquitted Nosair of murder but the DA office managed to convict him on other charges.
Rabbi Kahane believed in Jewish pride, Jewish self-defence, and in Israel he advocated transfer of the Arabs and establishment of a State run according to the Torah.
Many Israelis also believe in these principles but few of them would describe themselves as "Kahanists". The principles are valid independently of Rabbi Kahane. Yair Davidiy has close friends who were and are disciples of Rabbi Kahane but Yair himself would not necessarily fit the accepted psychological mould though ideologically we agree.

Regarding the letter from "MassuhDGoodName":

Belief in Israelite origins
Belief in Israelite origins in Britain goes right back at least to the 500s CE and the time of Gildas.

The British Empire
The British Empire on the whole was a very beneficial entity. We need something like that now. The USA could use an ally. How else do you expect to keep maniacal genocidal haters of the West and USA Islamic nations under control unless you rule over them?
What is better from a humanitarian point of view:
Allowing states such as Sudan to exterminate and enslave its non-Arabic citizens or having a benevolent colonial body (such as the British Empire was) keep everybody in place while maintaining minimum standards of physical well-being and respect for innate human dignity?

"British Israelism" and anti-Semitism
It is true that the beliefs of  "British Israelism" today have been adopted and perverted by nasty anti-Semitic organisms.
Statistically however MOST believers in Israelite Ancestry are sympathetic towards the Jews and support the State of Israel. Historically a good number of "Anglo" Gentiles who supported Zionism and were important in their time also held such beliefs, though there were always exceptions.

 "MassuhDGoodName" described # Davidy's "research"#  as # little more than a collection of neologisms at worst, and absurd folk tales at best.#
A neologism is the use of words that only have meaning to the person who uses them.
"MassuhDGoodName" himself is here guilty of a neologism since no-one apart from himself understands what he is referring to, and even that is doubtful!

"Brit" and "Britain"
"MassuhDGoodName" says:
# Brit-Am "proofs" are based on such ridiculousness as claiming that Britain is a Lost Tribe of Israel - the "proof" offered being that since the first four letters of the English word 'Britain' spell "Brit", which when pronounced in Hebrew means 'covenant', this "proves" that the English actually are one of the Lost Tribes of Israel. #

Brit-Am Reply:
Maybe we did mention the similarity between "brit" and "Britain". In Medieval times Britain was referred to as Britammia and in the Hebrew Bible (Isaiah 42:6, 49:8) refers to the Lost Tribes as a "Brit-Am" meaning Covenant of the People.
Brit-Am and Britammia are in effect the same name.
We thought this fact worth mentioning and as we emphasize over and over again each and every proof needs to be considered in the context of the overall body of evidence and not isolated.
Biblical Geographical Evidence: Brit-Am

Herbert W. Armstrong and Brit-Am
"MassuhDGoodName" says:
# His "beliefs" are almost word for word the lectures of the late Herbert W. Armstrong's World Wide Church of G-d. #

Brit-Am Reply:
Herbert W. Armstrong wrote about the Lost Ten Tribes. He was inspired by those who went before him (such as John H. Allen) but presented it in his own way. His Church organization distributed millions of copies of his writings and did much to spread awareness of the Ten Tribes being found amongst Western Nations. He also had on his staff scholars such as Herman Hoehe, Raymond McNair, Dibar Apartian, and others.

Brit-Am would probably agree with most applications of Hebrew Biblical ("Old Testament") verses to the Lost Ten Tribes made by Herbert Armstrong and his team. [There are some points where we differ on Tribal identifications etc but these are secondary considerations.]
We also agree with most of their "secular" historical explanations.
We see nothing wrong in this.

In addition to that however Brit-Am has added much more.
We have added or expanded on straightforward Biblical evidence.
We have also shown how Rabbinical sources justify our conclusions and add much to them.
In the field of secular studies we have merited to receive or come across much new evidence and we still do.
Herbert W. Armstrong continued a field of study that had been viable and vibrant long before him. We are doing the same.

"MassuhDGoodName" seems to be one of those people who do not want to believe, who have prior prejudices, and will always be prepared to deny what truths we may present them.

The Jews, Qualities of Esau, and Joseph
In this thread other matters were brought up.
Kahane-Was-Right BT (Reply #107) said (amongst other things):

# In any case, all of this departs from the point of what I was saying which is that there is no question that non-Jews/Europeans (even descendants of
Esav if you want to call them that) are non-Jews and Jews are Jews.  You are conflating Europeans with Jews for some strange reason.   Jews are supposed to have their own nation and with that nation they can provide for themselves, defend themselves, do all the things that all men are capable of.   We do not need to farm out anything-other-than-learning as if we are incapable to live on our own and with G-d's help.   There was a time when the great chachamim [Talmudic Sages] worked for a living and learned trades, and fought in battle, and they would think you are nuts for saying these things.   But you see the present-day reality when many so-called "learners" are uneducated or unemployed and incapable of other things.    The reality is that they are capable, they just don't know it, and like you, they have been led to believe that those things are not for them because they are supposedly "goyishe" things not Jewish things.   What a scandal.  Why do you buy into such garbage and propagate it here?   Why do you buy into the myth that Jews are defenseless and helpless and weak and cannot fight, and why do you propagate it here? #

Brit-Am Comment:
This subject may be considered an internal Jewish matter but it does touch on Brit-Am understanding of the Divine Plan:

The Jews should indeed maintain their own State, defend their people and national honor, and do all they can in that regard. They have shown an admirable propensity for this. They are descendants of the soldiers of King David and the Maccabee warriors. When they were in exile they had no choice but to adapt their very psychological attitudes to what was expected of them by their Gentile "hosts".
This is something that had negative effects and an ongoing Redemptive Process is needed and may be taking place today.

On the other hand, a cultural war is being waged by the Forces of Darkness against the Torah and true believers. In principle a true Jew should be able to work for his living, learn and keep the Torah, and also when necessary serve as a warrior in the Armies of Israel. In practice however it is often not possible for one person to fulfill all three of these duties. Enabling those who choose to learn Torah full time to do so has, in our opinion, Divine Approbation. This was once the main task of the Tribe of Levi but others who were not from Levi also were so chosen. They who learn full-time are too waging war in their own way on behalf of Israel and the truth. We need to support them as we can for our own sake. This is the reality. When all the Jews learn Torah and keep the commandments as they should then it may be possible to re-think the situation but even then we doubt if an ideal alternative exists.

We spoke above of the concept of Esau fulfilling one task and Judah-Israel another.

Brit-Am understanding puts three parties into the equation instead of two:
In place of just Judah and Esau with Judah being spiritual and Esau physically aggressive we include Joseph.
Joseph was sold to Esau (Amos 1:6, 9), became like him, and in the end overcame him, at least in part.
This process is not yet complete.
Commentary on the book of  OBADIAH (1:18,21)
# The Talmud (Megilla 6) infers that Edom went to Germany and Roman Italy. The Talmud (Baba Batra 123;b) also says that only the descendants of Joseph are capable of conclusively defeating Edom and that the Prophecy of Obadiah refers to such an event. #

The union of Joseph and Judah will enable the spiritual-psychological Redemption of both parties.
The union will involve Joseph adopting and adapting aspects of Judah and Judah of Joseph. This to some degree has already began and Brit-Am is working to facilitate and quicken the process through a drawing together of hearts and minds.
The Purpose of Exile and Loss of Identity
These concepts are not a "discovery" of Brit-Am but derived from the sources as we show in our writings.

Continuation of the Thread and Brit-Am as an Issue
After the above , the thread on the blog continued (and is still going on):

Wonga (in reaction to what others had said but for lack of space we are not quoting) said:
Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
 Reply #125 on: July 10, 2010, 08:20:18 PM

Davidy's '110 proofs' certainly provide food for thought

The Ten Lost Tribes went somewhere, and it is predicted that they will return.

Although it is hard to swallow that
yer average uncircumcised, beer-swilling, uncouth, foul-mouthed, rednecked, antisemitic Scottish, English, Aussie, Kiwi and Yank, could be of TLT origin, if the TLTs exist anywhere at all on the physical plane, I'd prefer them to be of the white rather than pigmented nations!

Brit-Am Comment:
The above remark by Wonga is favorable to us and must be considered in the light of previous remarks of others (that we are not posting here) using even more unflatering epithets.
Nevertheless, it is worth remarking that as many as 50% (there were more in the past) of "Anglos" (in the USA and Australia at least) are circumcised out of choice, beer-swilling is not that bad and the "Drunkards of Ephraim" were already mentioned in the Bible (Isaiah 28:2). In addition they are not on the whole anti-Semitic but mostly pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Even those (usually in the minority) who are not in favor of the Jews and Israel often still have a fair-minded streak, do not really hate Jews, and could change their attitudes for the better.

After that,
MassuhDGoodName (Reply #127) makes a longish tirade, gets some of his history wrong, and seems to assume that we identify ALL Europeans as belonging to the Lost Tribes of Israel. We do not. On the contrary.

At all events the blog presents an educational and valuable exchange.

'It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God or the Bible.'
  George Washington