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Brit-Am Now no. 1380
The Lost Ten Tribes of Israel Movement
23 August 2009, 3 Elul 5769
Contents:
1. Cam Rea:
On the Antiquity of Indian
Documents
2. (a) Daniel Tukuafu
and (b) Mary Mc:
Both the KJ and Brit-Am were Correct. Verse Corrected
Brit-Am Misunderstood the Old English!
3. Books Received:
Restoring Abrahamic
Faith by James D. Tabor
1. Cam Rea: On the Antiquity of Indian
Documents:
re Brit-Am Now no. 1379
http://www.britam.org/now/1379Now.html#Cam
#1. Cam Rea: World Domination by Scythian Descendants Foretold in Indian Text?
Shalom Mr. Davidiy I hope all is well with you and your family.
I did a pretty good investigation into that verse found in the Mahabharata. So
far I find the same verse even in older manuscripts and some of the books I
found online by India scholars make no mention of bad interpretation or even a
miss understanding. As far as I can tell it seems to be a legit verse. I could
try emailing some pro's that specilise in India's religous history.
Cam Rea
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Brit-Am
Reply:
I did not intend to say that the said passage is a mere insertion but rather
part of the whole narrative whose final formulation only took place in the 1700s
or later and not (as is claimed) 3000 or more years earlier.
Whether or not the Indian works are of great antiquity does not make that much
difference to us one way or another since at this stage we do not use them nor
even find it necessary to take cognizance of their existence.
Nevertheless if we do have to refer to such works it is worth while making it
clear to ourselves as to what we are dealing with.
The Indian works for instance also have tales about their gods (or one of their
gods) very similar to that of the Christian Messiah in Christian belief. Where
the tales of the Christian Messiah originated is not our concern at present but
it does seem that in this case it is the Hindus who are doing the copying and
not the other way round.
To be effective one must be fair.
In last week's portion (Shoftim) we had the verse.
[Deuteronomy 16:20] THAT WHICH IS ALTOGETHER JUST SHALT THOU FOLLOW, THAT THOU
MAYEST LIVE, AND INHERIT THE LAND WHICH THE LORD THY GOD GIVETH THEE.
http://www.britam.org/deuteronomy/5shoftim.html
#THAT WHICH IS ALTOGETHER JUST SHALT THOU FOLLOW#.
In Hebrew "Tsedek tsedek tirdaf" literally "Justice, justice you
shall pursue after" i.e. double justice, justice that is certain.
The word in Hebrew used here for justice is Tsedek. In the Aramaic
Paraphrase-Translation of Onkelos this word is here translated as "Kushta" i.e.
TRUTH.
Justice is the Truth and the Truth is Justice. We must recognize the truth and
own up to it and pursue our course by going after (pursuing) that which is true.
This attitude of ours to Indian written works may remind some of the way modern
atheistical Biblical Critics relate to Scripture.
Biblical Critics often have an anti-Israelite anti-Jewish agenda.
They make all kinds of claims about Biblical Books that are mostly untrue.
They are extremely prejudicial and sometimes outright liers.
There is no reason however why the same standards they attempt to apply to the
Bible should not be applied to books that are not part of the Bible.
We have no obligation to show any reference to pagan works.
We do not have to accept assertions regarding the antiquity of such works
without seeing proof of it.
In general our attitude is to usually respect mythology and ancient traditions
and try to look for what historical truth if any lies behind them. We do not
reject them outright.
2. (a) Daniel
Tukuafu
and (b) Mary Mc:
Both the KJ and Brit-Am were Correct. Verse Corrected
Brit-Am Misunderstood the Old English!
(a) From: Daniel
Tukuafu
RE: Weekly Portion: Shoftim
http://www.britam.org/deuteronomy/5shoftim.html
Isaiah 52:12 King James Version (KJV)
http://www.britam.org/isaiah/Isaiah51to55.html#51
Brit-Am said:
[Isaiah 52:12] FOR YE SHALL NOT GO OUT WITH HASTE, NOR GO BY FLIGHT: FOR THE
LORD WILL GO BEFORE YOU; AND THE GOD OF ISRAEL WILL BE YOUR REWARD.
Ref:
"WILL BE YOUR REWARD": I do not understand where this translation came
from. Understand me: I respect the King James version a lot and
actually prefer using it. Nevertheless here and there occur some
renditions of words and expressions that I have trouble
comprehending. The Hebrew says "umasifchem" meaning "and will gather
you", i.e. it should be translated, "AND THE GOD OF ISRAEL WILL GATHER YOU UP".
The KJV translates it as "rereward". "Rere" or rear. "ward" as in forward or
backward. As in your translation the Lord "will gather you up", in the war
scene and some modern terminology "I will bring up the rear" or "I'll take the
6" has the same feeling. Context of this verse speaks of Lord that he, "will
cover you from the front and protect you from the rear."
This could mean that we have no need to fear, as long as we are doing what He
wants us to do. He will command us and prepare a way (go before us) for us to
accomplish his commands. We have no need to fear... to legally "cover our
behinds", when we're doing what we are supposed to (unless that is part of his
directions to us) because he will do that for us.
In a way, the fear factor is gone. No excuses. If we want to follow the Lord,
we can. If we don't want to follow him, we cannot blame it on him for not
preparing the way, as we are always likely to do with our "stiff necks" Exodus
32:9.
Thank you for your efforts to clear the way for HaShem in our lives, to remove
animosity and/or envy from between Judah and Joseph, bringing us together as the
family that we are.
Daniel T.
P.S. Could the gather in your "gather you up" be the same gather that is found
in Gen 25:17?
===============================================
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(b) From:
mary
mc
Re: Weekly Portion: Shoftim
Regarding the statement in the following:
[Isaiah 52:12] FOR YE SHALL NOT GO OUT WITH HASTE, NOR GO BY
FLIGHT: FOR THE LORD WILL GO BEFORE YOU; AND THE GOD OF ISRAEL WILL
BE YOUR REWARD.
"WILL BE YOUR REWARD" I do not understand where this translation came
from. Understand me: I respect the King James version a lot and
actually prefer using it. Nevertheless here and there occur some
renditions of words and expressions that I have trouble
comprehending. The Hebrew says "umasifchem" meaning "and will gather
you", i.e. it should be translated, "AND THE GOD OF ISRAEL WILL GATHER YOU UP".
The word in the King James is NOT reward but REARWARD which is a rear guard
(comes behind you to gather or lift you up).
I just felt I should point this out.
Thank you for all the work you put into your studies.
================================================
================================================
Brit-Am
Reply:
Both Daniel Tukuafu and mary mc pointed out the same
misunderstanding on our part
so the answer below applies to both of them though it was written before that
message from
mary mc reached us.
Thank you for your help. We have corrected our entry in the light of your
assistance as below:
[Isaiah 52:12] FOR YE SHALL NOT GO OUT WITH HASTE, NOR GO BY FLIGHT: FOR THE
LORD WILL GO BEFORE YOU; AND THE GOD OF ISRAEL WILL BE YOUR REWARD.
"WILL BE YOUR REWARD" In Hebrew "umasifchem". Apparently the word rendered above
as REWARD was originally REREWARD meaning "Protection of the Rear".
[We owe this information to Daniel Tukuafu.]
"Umasifchem" in Hebrew suggests both rearguard protection and gathering up (Daat
Mikra).
Joining the two parts of verse together, it may be understood to say:
God will go before you and behind you to protect you and gather up your
stragglers.
Similary concerning the Tribe of Dan it says:
AND THE STANDARD OF THE CAMP OF THE CHILDREN OF DAN SET FORWARD, WHICH WAS THE
REREWARD [Hebrew: "Ma-asef"] OF ALL THE CAMPS THROUGHOUT THEIR HOSTS: AND OVER
HIS HOST WAS AHIEZER THE SON OF AMMISHADDAI.[Numbers 10:25]
Here we have the word Ma-asef translated as REREWARD.
The Tribe of Dan both protected the rear-end of the Camp of Israel as well as
gathering in all the stragglers from the other Tribes who dropped behind.
You asked whether there or not there could be a parallelism with:
[Genesis 25:17] AND THESE ARE THE YEARS OF THE LIFE OF ISHMAEL, AN HUNDRED AND
THIRTY AND SEVEN YEARS: AND HE GAVE UP THE GHOST AND DIED; AND WAS GATHERED UNTO
HIS PEOPLE.
The expression translated as AND WAS GATHERED in Hebrew is "ve-ya-asef" which
is based on the same root as the expression used in Isaiah 52:12 but is handled
differently.
A much closer parallel is found in Numbers 10:25 as noted above and here the Kj
(as you point out) has indeed translated both expressions as
REREWARD.
3. Books received
Restoring Abrahamic
Faith
by James D. Tabor (3rd edition, 2008)
Book looks interesting. We have not yet read it but leafing through its pages
indicates that the work
advocates an Ephraimite-type return to Hebraic practices along with practical
suggestions, biblical and historical background,
etc, It is written from a perspective that manages to be academically acceptable
while remaining true to Scripture.
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