"Brit-Am Now"-945
Contents:
1. D. Cotter: Simeon, Reuben, Oz and NZ.
2. Steve Coneglan:
Reuben Not France? Sheepfarming
3. Stephen Spykerman:
Simeon to be Scattered, and therefore not Australia
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1. D. Cotter:
Simeon, Reuben, Oz and NZ.
From: Dafydd <dafydd@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: "Brit-Am Now"-943
#2. Craig Blackwood: More Comparizons- NZ, OZ, France
Dear Yair,
The recent posts from my cousins over the Tasman have been interesting and
enlightening. I admire the diligent research, though disagree with the
concluding assumptions, of Steve Congelan. I believe that both nations (New
Zealand and Australia) are predominately nations of Ephraim, though other
tribes are most certainly present and represented in the social fabric. I
accept that Simeon is represented and contributes to the common weal of
Australia, and perhaps Reuben plays a similar role in New Zealand, but must
confess that I haven't detected that in my NZ friends and acquaintances
(apart from that soft NZ accent, Reuben seduces through language).
Reuben is everywhere, but France is the home address these days. You only
have to read the histories of the last century to see the family
relationships of the Patriarchs working through the "family relations" of
western nations. Reuben, the first born of Israel, lost his principal
inheritance to younger brother Joseph. Reuben still bears this grudge, shuns
anything Josephite, and would prefer to act as an independent agent in his
dealings with foreign powers, primarily to demonstrate his difference to the
English speaking world.
But just as Reuben went back to recover Joseph before Joseph was sold off to
slavery, Joseph will always go to the assistance of Reuben, though Reuben
will accept this assistance as a humiliation of sorts. France is very
clearly in the picture here, and the bountiful bough of Joseph spreads
across the English speaking world, our small outposts included.
Ephraim is the shield of Judah, and the ANZAC contribution to the defeat of
the Ottomans in Israel, even the honour of being the first troops to enter
Jerusalem, show the partial fulfilment of Ephraim's obligations to the
covenant. More recently, prior to the downfall of the Bathist regime in
Iraq, Ephraim acted as a shield for Judah again. As the principal powers of
Joseph (USA & England) were advancing towards Baghdad from the south-east,
Australians already controlled the west from the Jordan border to the
western outskirts of Baghdad.
Not a single scud missile was launched against Israel this time, Ephraim was
in place.
With regards to the Dutch presence in New Zealand, they will become
increasingly obvious given present migration trends. The Dutch are becoming
a wandering nation again, and New Zealand is the second choice behind
Canada, see....
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005887.php
See the article posted by Mentat in the above.
Also worth viewing is...
http://pajamasmedia.com/2007/04/time_to_get_out.php
On another topic, I would appreciate your views on the possible presence of
some Hebrew related clans in northern Italy. I see the alliances that
Hannibal built with these people after he came over the alps as interesting,
given that Hannibal may have been of Dan.
My best wishes,
D. Cotter
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2. Steve
Coneglan:
Reuben Not France? Sheepfarming
Subject: New Zealand
Greetings Yair!
This message is meant especially for Craig, but is also open to all. I very much
enjoy the aspects of Kiwi culture that Craig keeps bringing up. As I said, these
tell us as much about who we are as does the historical record and the Biblical
narrative.
Just to clear up a point with Craig. I think you are under the misconception
that I associate Reuben with France, and then to us Kiwis. This is not what I
meant, so I'd better explain myself a bit better. I don't particularly believe
that the French are Reuben in the first place. The ideas of Reubenite romance
that you allude to are not something that I subscribe to. To me, Reuben has been
given a bit of a rough press until now.
Reuben was a pastoralist. His tribe was upbraided in the song of Deborah for
tarrying amongst the sheepfolds, listening to the bleating of the sheep. This
negative trait can be fairly ascribed to Kiwis at times. We live in paradise,
but we still manage to whinge a lot more than we ought to. For me, sheep are the
defining sign of Reuben in the Bible. The two are bound together at Judges
5:15,16; Numbers 32; and 1 Chronicles 5:18-22. Reuben's territory was across the
Jordan valley, in the great pastoral plains adjacent to Moab. To my mind,
finding Reuben today means finding where all those sheep went. And New Zealand
has approximately ten sheep to every person in the land.
Reuben's character may well have been tempered by his attachment to Ephraim, if
my initial proposition has any validity. When it comes to water, the tribe of
Reuben was certainly associated with it. Their tribal territory bordered the
Dead Sea. It also had important river resources. Jacob likened Reuben to
turbulent waters. To be more specific, the likeness was to boiling water
(Genesis 49:4). New Zealand has abundant geothermal resources. Water literally
steams up out of our ground. While this connection might be a bit of a stretch,
it's worth putting in this aspect. We are also known as the Shaky Isles by the
Aussies because we are earthquake prone.
I look forward to hearing more on this subject. I've still got more points I'd
like to work through at some later date, as well as further anecdotes to bring
to the table. Are there any Aussies out there with more to bring to this
discussion? Every bit is worth hearing and sharing.
God bless Brit-Am, and thank you Yair,
Stephen Coneglan
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3. Stephen
Spykerman:
Simeon to be Scattered, and therefore not Australia
From: Stephen Spykerman <sspykerman@supanet.com>
Subject: Recent comments Re: Kiwis and Aussies
Hello Yair
I have much enjoyed the recent fascinating dialogue between Steve Coneglan and
Craig Blackwood regarding the tribal origins of the Kiwis and the Aussies. Being
a Dutchman born of a Jewish mother who has lived in England these past 45 years,
I have always had a great admiration for the achievements of Australia and New
Zealand, and I have invariably got on extremely well with all those I have met
over the years.
Whereas, I am ready to accept the premise that there may well be a good
contingent of 'in-your-face' Simeonites in Australia, to say that Australia is
Simeon I think is stretching things too far simply because if it were true it
would be in contradiction with the Torah. In Genesis 49:7 we find the prophetic
words of Jacob/Israel addressing both Simeon and Levi, saying: "Cursed be their
anger, for it is fierce; and their wrath, for it is cruel! I WILL DIVIDE THEM IN
JACOB AND SCATTER THEM IN ISRAEL. Thus according to the 'WORD' of HaShem Simeon
is to be scattered all over Israel and therefore he is not to be found in
concentrations large enough to allow him to predominate in any one nation.
Keep up the excellent work & shalom
Stephen
Stephen@mountephraim.info
Brit-Am Comment: In our work "The Tribes" we suggested that Simeon and Dan were
prominent in both Ireland and Wales
with Simeon being stronger in Ireland. This was along with the presence of
elements from "Joseph" and other tribes.
Australia does have a very strong Irish presence that may account for more than
20% of the population.
My own impression is that the Ephraim element is predominant in Australia
and strongly expresses itself but it does so in a different way from what we
find in Britain.
Australians are also snobbish in their own way.
This is exemplified by Australian officialdom. On the one hand once one manages
to actually speak to them
they are often fair and prepared if necessary to
go out of their way to help if they think the occasion warrants it.
On the other hand, their instructions and procedures are not "user friendly".
If one has not got what is required or cannot second guess what needs to be done
then "tough luck".
If a mistake or injustice resulted because they did not exert themselves when
they should have then "tough luck" again
though they will express the sentiment more delicately.
The British appear to be fairer in this way, the Jews and Americans even more so
though each has
their own weaknesses and virtues less pronounced in the others.