"Brit-Am Now"-354

January 22, 2004
1. How Many Tribes Were There?
2. Questions on Ephraimite Brit-Am Identity and Conversion.
3. Donald Jones: Israel is not an Exclusive Club
4. Religious Resistance?
5. New Names on Genealogy List
6. Brit-Am and Pay Pal
7. William the Conqueror and Finland?

1. How Many Tribes Were There?

>Dear Yair ,
>How many Tribes are there ? After Jacob blesses Mannessah and Ephraim , I
>can't work out if it is12 or14 ?

It depends how you count them:
The Bible always make it twelve by leaving one or other of them out.

That makes 12.
Joseph became two tribes Ephraim and Mannasseh that makes 13
unless you count Joseph as a Tribe in addition to Ephraim and Mannasseh
in which case you have 14.
According to  most commentators Joseph did have other sons apart from
Ephraim and Manasseh
but these were absorbed by Ephraim and Manasseh and counted as part of them.

2. Questions on Ephraimite Brit-Am Identity and Conversion.
>Dear Mr. Davidy,
>I have a question for you concerning conversion. If Ephraimites begin to
>convert to Judaism, will they still be Ephraimites?
>In other words they will no longer have an Ephraimite identity but they
>will take on Judah's identity. Hypothetically, if all of Ephraim convert
>to Judaism, there will no longer be two houses.
>Do you see a day in which Ephraim will be recognized and accepted in his
>Torah observant life without converting to Judaism?
>Thank you,
>Kol tuv,  [i.e.  "All Good", "all the Best"].

First of all let us be clear  up some secondary points that are worth
noting before getting down to the main question.
Please excuse my style. I usually manage to say everything that needs
saying but the order is not always what it should be.
  Judah does not want converts or at least followers of traditional Judaism
do not want them and they are the only ones who really count in this matter.
They do not want them but they will accept them if the applicant persists.
This applies for an individual but experience shows that for a group it can be easier.

The task of Brit-Am is to spread the message of Brit-Am Identity both to
Judah and to Joseph.
This is what we do as well as we can and a good beginning has been made and
is still going on.
This is the most important task we could have and we are struggling to keep
doing it.
We do not have the energies, abilities, qualifications, or energy, to do
anything else even if we wanted to.
One should do what is best for oneself  in the light of  what God wants for you.
If  groups of converts were to identify with Brit-Am and convert this could
help the image of Brit-Am in Judah and the world.
For example,
Members of primitive Tribes in Burma decided that they were from the Lost
Ten Tribes, converted to Judaism,
and moved to settlements in Judah and Samaria. They were given a good but
relatively short conversion course and material assistance
and on the whole settled in successfully.
They received a lot of publicity both in Israel and the world. They created
a renewed interest in the question of the Lost Tribes.
Significant sums were contributed by philanthropists to assist them and
further activities around them and the organization that was helping them.
We do not think they really were descended from Israel but since they have
converted, accepted the covenant, and identify it does not matter.
If they are doing it why cannot the real Ephraimites do it especially since
quite a few Ephraimites  are numbered amongst the regular
conversions that do take place? We are referring to people who have already
converted or who wish to do so but have a Brit-Am "Ephraimite" awareness.

Should they convert?
I do not know.
In the Last Days Ephraim will return and keep the Law but he will do it as
a group and we have not reached that stage.
If however there are numbers of Ephraimites who feel they should take such a step
then perhaps it would be a good thing if they do get organized.
We are speaking of people who are certain in their hearts that this is what
they should do.
It could be a lonely path and even for social reasons getting together
would not harm.
Brit-Am would be in favor of such a move and would do the little it could
to assist it
BUT we would not want to be exclusively identified  with it but rather that
it identify with us.

Now to your questions:
<<If  Ephraimites begin to convert to Judaism, will they still be Ephraimites?
In other words they will no longer have an Ephraimite identity but they
will take on Judah's identity. Hypothetically, if all of Ephraim convert to
Judaism, there will no longer be two houses.
<<Do you see a day in which Ephraim will be recognized and accepted in his
Torah observant life without converting to Judaism?

Once someone converts there is often a tendency at first to reject the past
completely, to be reborn, and to be immersed entirely in Judah.
There are however parallels for instance the Ethiopian Jews.
The Ethiopian Jews were requested to "renew the covenant" which was in
effect considered the same as conversion
but did not necessarily deny a previous Israelite origin.
The Children of Israel when they came out of Egypt and received the Torah
on Mount Sinai renewed the covenant.
In effect they all converted and additional renewings of the covenant took
place several times in early Israelite history.
In this way instead of denying an Israelite past one in effect AFFIRMS IT.
If Ephraimites were to come in a group and more or less stay together and
associate with each other and remain conscious
of Brit-Am beliefs they would retain their Ephraimite identity.
Technically, all the tribes are now intermixed:
We say that the Jews are dominated by Judah but also have many from Levi
and Benjamin amongst them as well as a smarting from
all the other tribes especially Ephraim, Manasseh, and Simeon.
"Ephraim" is dominated by the Tribes of Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh) but
also contains all the other tribes.
By accepting Judaism one does in a sense accept the Law as interpreted
mainly by the sages of  "Judah" and we believe that this is how it was intended.
We do not know how it will be in the Messianic Era or what changes will be  made.
We are imperfect people in an imperfect world and should all do as well as we can.

>  Both Judah and Joseph will seek God in the Last Days (Jeremiah 50:4).

The Bible says that towards the End Times the Lost Tribes will return and
re-unite with Judah (Isaiah 11:12-13 Ezekiel 37) . There will be no
complete Redemption for Judah without the return of the Ten Tribes (Ezekiel
16:53, 55, 61). Judah will be obligated to go unto the Ten Tribes and bring
them back (Jeremiah 3:18 31:8).  The Ten Tribes are also called upon to
seek their God and their ancestry (Jeremiah 31:9-10, 21) and affirm
it.  Ezekiel (11:18) hints that first the exiles will return to the Land of
Israel and after that they shall put away their idols and keep the Law
(Ezekiel 11:20). The complete return of Judah is dependent upon the return
of Samaria (Ezekiel 16:53, 55, 61) meaning the Ten Tribes especially
Manasseh of  the USA. God will renew His covenant with Judah and with
Israel (Ezekiel 16:62). Part of Judah will return to the Land and begin to
build it up. Then the Lost Ten Tribes will return in two stages together
with the remnant of Judah (Isaiah 56:8 and Hosea chapter six, see "Ephraim"
by Yair Davidiy). Identity Lost: Hosea (chapter one) predicted that the
Lost Ten Tribes would be considered non-Israelites and (Hosea 7:8 Isaiah
11:11 49:21 )  distinct from Judah: Census lists of Ezra and Nehemiah do
not mention anyone from the Ten Tribes amongst Judah. Their religious
Membership was Suspended: Jeremiah 3:8 (divorced, cf. Yebamot 17), Hosea
1:9.  They would combined with Gomer (Hosea ch.1) but later Re-Unite with
Judah (Hosea 3;18 Isaiah 11:11). In the Last Days they will Return by
Aeroplanes (Isaiah 60:8).  Initially they will not be accepted by Judah
(Isaiah 49;21). Both Judah and Joseph will seek God in the Last Days
(Jeremiah 50:4). Ephraim will return to Bashan and Gilead (Micah 7:14)
meaning Syria and Lebanon (Zechariah 10:10). The Lost Ten Tribes are
exhorted to take heed of historical and archaeological evidence concerning
their origins and to return to their cities in Samaria (Jeremiah 31:12).

until the end times they will have been so divided.
Ezekiel says that there they will no longer be two separate kingdoms but
one. Ezekiel also says that each tribe shall dwell in its own territory
alongside of but separate from the other tribes.

3. Donald Jones: Israel is not an Exclusive Club
Yair Davidiy;
If I may, I would like to add somewhat to the answer you gave to Annie
Stephens in response to
her question about the wives of Joseph and Moses and about Rahab and
Ruth. It seems to me that in understanding the truths about the
gathering together of the twelve tribes back into the land of Israel it
is essential that we realize that God, in choosing the descendants of
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as His special people, He was not organizing an
elite club for His special pets, but rather was choosing a nation for a
special purpose. That purpose was that the Nation of Israel was to be an
instrument to maintain a knowledge of Jehovah amongst the inhabitants of
earth, through as many centuries as it would take, until the time when
all prophecy is fulfilled and every one on this planet is a true
worshiper of God.
Isaiah 45:22-23 (KJV)  Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of
the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
  Ezekiel 36:23-25 (KJV) And I will sanctify my great name, which was
profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them;
and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when
I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from
among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring
you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and
ye shall be clean from all your filthiness, and from all your idols,
will I cleanse you.
Ezekiel 36:33-36 (KJV) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall
have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to
dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate
land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that
passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become
like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities
are become fenced, and are inhabited. Then the heathen that are left
round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and
plant that, that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

My point in all of this is that, when God saw choice hearts that would
really worship Him, He seemed to add them to the roster of the
Israelites. Numbers 15:15-16 bears out this thought.  "One ordinance
shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger
that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as
ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.  One law and one
manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with
you.  The law as to who should not enter the Sanctuary was made known
well after both Joseph and Moses had been given their wives, so
obviously it would not apply to them.
  Rahab declared , Joshua 2:11 (KJV) And as soon as we had heard these
things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage
in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven
above, and in earth beneath.This declaration of her faith in the God
of Israel, so far as God was concerned, made her an Israelite. Ruth too,
stated her allegiance, Ruth 1:16 (KJV) And Ruth said, Entreat me not
to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou
goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall
be my people, and thy God my God:So we see then, that both of these
women were true followers of the God of Israel. They were worthy to be
grafted into the line of Gods people. No law was broken. They had
chosen to be followers of God in spite of danger to themselves or
disownment by their own people.

Your work is appreciated. God bless you

>4. Religious Resistance?
>Hi Yair,
>  If the state of Israel were to adopt the idea of allowing Israeli tribes
> other than Judah to return to the land of Israel at some future time,
> would the "orthodox" Jews put up a resistance in receiving "Israeli
> Christians" within the homeland?
>Regarding the last point: Brit-Am is interested in spreading knowledge
>of  "Ephraimite" Brit-Am Identity and in seeing these
>truths accepted, strengthened (through research), and confirmed in the
>hearts of all Israel.
>We do not decide matters.
The question is hypothetical because before the question even arises the
truth of Brit-Am identity beliefs has to be ascertained
by those to whom it is pertinent.
Your expression,
"allowing Israeli tribes other than Judah"
presumes that there is not controversy as to who these "Israelite tribes"
are and that everyone accepts Brit-Am beliefs.
Maybe they should but the do not. Many have not even heard of them.
In principle:
>There are a few non-Jewish and Christian settlements and communities of
>people from Western countries scattered throughout the Land of Israel.
>Some are successful and some are not. Some of them caused scandals and
>security problems.
The authorities are wary.
>Most Jews (both religious and non-religious) would allow anything that was
>for the good of the country.
>The Lost Ten Tribes became "Lost".
>Judah on the whole did not lose consciousness of his identity. The others did.
>Just because your are convinced because of Brit-Am or for other reasons
>that you are descended from Israel is not enough at present.
>A foreigner cannot say "I feel like an American. I believe my distant
>ancestors about three thousand years ago came from America,
>and therefore I want to go to America and receive American citizenship
>upon arrival".
In our case the situation is not exactly the same since we are considering
the demands of a Biblical truth who time of applicability
is the present or at least not far away.
>Judah was to retain his identity. Judah was to return and to prepare the
>way for other Jews and for the Ten Tribes who will also return.
>We have quoted sources in the past that indicate that in the return Joseph
>will be politically and militarily more important.
>We have also quoted sources in our writings that in the End Times the
>truth of Judah will be acknowledged by his brothers and the Law will be
>kept. See our books, especially "Ephraim" and "Origin" that speak about
>these matters and are worth reading even if you disagree with them.
>The most important thing is knowledge and getting correct information
>about "Brit-Am" to as many people as possible.
>Very little can be achieved without this.
>Whether you agree with me or not for the moment very few will be inclined
>to listen to either of us unless
>they are familiar with "Brit-Am" beliefs and research findings.
Getting the knowledge out will change the nature of this discussion from a
hypothetical discussion to one concerning the implied applications of
revealed truths.
>You may not like our approach on other matters but we are agents of Divine
>Because of our approach people will listen to us.
Those who are genuine in this interest will assist us in our task.
Anything else is not serious.
If you believe in this message you should identify with and do what you can
to assist Brit-Am.
If you do not feel inclined to do so perhaps it is because the truth of the
Brit-Am Identity message does not really speak to you
and you have other considerations.
We are going to get the message out and we are challenging those concerned
to cope with this question.
We are also saying that all who have feelings in this regard should work
with us.
This is a beginning. This is what we have to do and trust that the Almighty
will guide all of us when the time comes.
>God bless you
>Yair Davidiy

5. New Names on Genealogy List
From: "Betty Rhodes" <betmatrho@britam.org>
New surnames added to Brit-Am Genealogy:

6. Brit-Am and Pay Pal
To make orders or offerings to Brit-Am by Pay Pal please go to:

7. William the Conqueror and Finland?
Web site traces  William the Conqueror's genealogy back on the paternal
line to three mythic rulers in Kvenland (Finland) in the 200's AD. After
that it picks up with historically established persons in Norway in the
300's AD. Just keep hitting on the "child" link and you'll get back to William.

Or start with his father and go back.

This one goes back even further.

These claims are probably very controversial but may be of interest.

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"And I will bless them that bless you" (Genesis 12:15).