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Brit-Am Now no. 1672.
Movement of the Ten Tribes of Israel.
25 March 2011, 19 Adar-Sheni 5772.
Contents:
1. Alistair Williams: What Matters Now!
2. Replies to Challenges Over YouTube Clips.
Round One.
(a) Re The Khazars.
(b) Re Herbert Armstrong.
(c) Torah Scholar Approval?
Round Two.
(a) Laws of Noah and Sambation.
(b) Need for Sources and Not Personal Predilections!
3. New Article: Why the British are Ephraim!
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1. Alistair Williams: What Matters Now!
Re: Brit-Am Now no. 1671
#3. Edward Anderson: Ephraim would be a Company of Nations!
http://britam.org/now2/1671Now.html#Edward
Hi Yair,
Regarding the modern location of Ephraim and Manasseh today.
There is a danger of falling into the trap of trying to outdo each other and also give one or other greater importance that the other.
What matters is that we know now that America and Britain and what's left of the empire are Israelite.
I find the saying 'all Jews are Israelite but not all Israelites are Jews' most useful.
As Israelites G-d wants to be our G-d and for us to be His people. Wherever we are we have to start to understand what it is that pleases G-d and do it.
The historical accounts of how the sons of Israel behaved towards one another have to be overcome, we cannot afford to concern ourselves too much with who is who when we have to be prepared to be united behind Messiah.
Regards
Alistair
2. Replies to Challenge Over YouTube Clips.
Round One
Message:
kilgorestudent has made a comment on The Khazars Were Hebrews!.avi:
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=yairdavidiy#p/u/22/K9e3M443plc
I believe you are twisting the facts to fit the theory. Yes, there is some evidence the Kuzari mass conversion was preceded by an admixture of Jewish people into the ruling class. This is considered the case with Bulan who's pagan father had a Biblical name showing some syncretism. He viewed it as a 'return' but not in the way you purporting. His Jewish ancestors came in just a few generations prior.
The fact those sources call them Jews was because by that time almost the entire realm had accepted Judaism!
I mean, I see the peyos [sidelocks] ... You don't seem to openly promote Y...as Messiah.
However, I find it hard to believe that your movement has any approval by legitimate Torah scholars. In fact, this sort of belief comes from a gentile named Herbert Armstrong.
Brit-Am Replies:
(a) Re The Khazars.
See our other clips on the Khazars for more information.
Also go to the Khazar section on our web-site:
http://www.britam.org/KhazarIndex.html
The evidence is overwhelming.
The Khazars were in the region that Jewish tradition and Greek inscriptions identifies as the Sambation.
This was the region of the Ten Tribes.
They claimed to be from the Ten Tribes and were recognized as such in their own times.
They acted accordingly.
Why should we not believe them?
Their assimilation amongst the Jewish people was complete and seamless.
Perhaps you have personal or ideological reasons to insist on their Gentile origins despite evidence to the contrary?
(b) Re Herbert Armstrong.
Herbert Armstrong did much to promote his version of this belief. He did not however originate it.
It existed long before his time.
See:
Traditions of Israelite Descent in England
http://www.britam.org/countries/england.html
(c) Torah Scholar Approval?
As for:
"approval by legitimate Torah scholars".
Why should you put us on the defensive?
If you are so sure of yourself please find one (just one!) accepted Orthodox Jewish Rabbinical authority who will say anything at all against us.
Round Two
(a).
kilgorestudent has sent you a message:
The only good that could come from this is you spreading the Laws of Noah, which does not seem to be your goal!!! You do nothing to rebuke them for their idolatry of Y. or for ascribing G-d parts. You never once mention the Laws of Noah in any of your writings that I've seen. I don't want to put you on the defensive but when you are saying things I've never heard from a Jewish source yes it gives it more authority if you can a Rav back you up and say its kosher.
There are people among all the Nations who claim descent from the Israelites... I don't see any more reason to accept the Edomites of Europe in a special way.
And about the River Sambation, the sources identify this as a River that rages during the week but rests from it raging on Shabbat!!!! The river you speak of definitely does not have this qualification. Chazal even says that the Lost Tribes are underneath us in a world underground. I don't see how you ignore the parts that don't identify that River with Sambation but clench on to what seems to go with your ideas.
(b) kilgorestudent has sent you a message:
No sir, I do in a sense always believe when someone converts to Judaism it truly is a return. I also believe that while there is a physical return of the Exiles that has and is occurring, the true miracle of the return will be a mass conversion to Judaism from people of all races and backgrounds. I just find fault in ascribing any speciality to the British people of the Indian, Chinese, or others. You present all your ideas as if our Sages clearly say what you suggest. While there might be evidence to support your ideas, it's not as clear cut at you make it. And in the end it doesn't matter, because at the end He will be One and His Name One.
I believe the Ten Tribes were dispersed among almost ALL peoples, and those souls lost to assimilation will return to Judaism at the end. You are not a Rabbi, and none of the Sages promote the idea that you do. It all might be possible but it isn't clear, and there probably is Israelite blood among the Europeans. Just as there is in all other peoples.
But being Jewish is not in your blood, it's in your soul. That's why your hang-ups on these questions are concerning! These are ideas in my opinion, outside of Judaism... And when someone converts they should not have feelings of affinity about the people they came from!
Brit-Am Replies:
(a) Laws of Noah and Sambation.
We promote Biblical values that encompass the Laws of Noah. Apart from which agreement concerning the Laws of Noah and spreading them is not as unanimous as is supposed.
It is not up to us to challenge Xtianity in this generation.
Some descendants of Europeans come from Edom and others from Joseph and the rest of the Ten Tribes.
The Ten Tribes were not to be scattered (like Judah) but rather concentrated in specific regions (Isaiah 11:12).
.
In regards to the Sambation you seem to be confusing sources and taking literally messages that were intended to be symbolic.
There are many Rabbis of reasonably-high authority who are relatively accessible. It anything is wrong with our message at least one of them should be prepared to say so.
Yair
(b) Need for Sources and Not Personal Predilections!
We deal with Biblical prophecy. What you believe or would like to believe does not interest us UNLESS you can quote from sources that substantiate your views.
Your personal philosophical speculations may be of interest and value but they are not what we deal with.
If what we say is not in accordance with Rabbinical Principles and Thought someone of some authority should say so.
[ There were occasions on which religious Jews did submit our works to Rabbis and were told to desist from protest.]
Other writers on religious matters who overstep the line or say things that are not so are informed of their error, - if error there is.
We have been around for decades. We live in an Orthodox Neighborhood in Jerusalem. We have a concise yet comprehensive book in Hebrew summarizing and explaining our beliefs. Over the years we have sent (sometimes after request and at other times not) a large number of these books to Rabbinical institutions and individuals.
In addition to this there are Rabbis of standing who know English and have received our works in English.
We endeavor not to say anything of substance without a source.
We would be happy to hear from anyone who disagrees with our understanding of the sources.
If we are mistaken on any point we will take appropriate steps.
Most of our books up until now have carried a Rabbinical Approbation.
It may be that, unbeknown to yourself, you are in the wrong.
3. New Article:
Why the British are Ephraim!
http://www.britam.org/EphraimClip.html
Contents:
Introduction.
[The seven Major Points:]
1. The Blessing of Ephraim was to precede that of Manasseh in Time.
2. Ephraim Lowered himself. Modest. The Pre-eminence of Manasseh is Material.
3. Ephraim to Rule Over Nations.
4. "A COMPANY OF NATIONS" to be fulfilled in Ephraim.
5. Ephraim Represents the Aristocratic Principle. Nobility. Ephrati.
Characteristic of Putting One in His Place.
6. Ephraim Represents the "BULL". John Bull of England, "Land of the Bull-Calf".
7. Ephraim Takes on the Aspects of Joseph whereas Manasseh is closer to Jacob.
Ephraim defeats Edom-Germany.
Addenda:
(a) Sacae (Scythians), Archers, and Ephraimites.
(b) Pommies and Englishmen.
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