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BAMAD-95
Brit-Am Anthropology and DNA Update
11 July 2011, 9 Tammuz 5771
Contents:
1. DNA Substantiates Brit-Am!
New Study Admits:
Most Probable that R1b came to Europe after 1000 BCE!!!
2. Henry Rhea: Admittedly Brit-Am Has a Point!
3. Many Anglo-Saxons have Similar DNA to Dutch and North Germans!
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1. DNA Substantiates Brit-Am!
New Study Admits:
Most Probable that R1b came to Europe after 1000 BCE!!!
Brit-Am Background:
R1b is the major
Y(Male
transmitted)DNA
haplogroup
in Western Europe.
The paper below considers different mathematical possibilities for the spread of
R1b across Europe.
These estimates are based on the rate of mutation of R1b as we know it today.
The simplest and most straight-forward possibility appears to be that R1b became
dominant in Europe after ca. 1000
BCE.Not
so long ago such a suggestion would not be countenanced. It would have been
considered to negate known history etc.
Since however recent DNA archaeological findings seem to indicate a lack of R1b
before 1000 BCE (or later) then it is closer to being accepted!!!
This accords with Brit-Am claims from the very beginning.
Brit-Am Claims are:
A. History. Most of the population of
Western Europe came there after ca. 700 BCE.
This applies to BOTH Israelites and non-Israelites.
These new findings saying that R1b only came to Europe after ca. 1000 BCE affirm
Brit-Am assumptions.
B. DNA. The DNA Imprint is initiated by
environmental factors and then continued with constant moderations via physical
heredity.
DNA may therefore be used to trace ancestry and migrations etc but only up to
the point of initial imprinting. It could also be that DNA may drastically
change.
On this point we are still fighting but wait and see.
Sources:
R1b1b2 in Europe dating rethink
http://dna-forums.org/index.php'
/blog/2/entry-164-r1b1b2
-in-europe-dating-rethink/
Wave-of-Advance Models of the Diffusion of the Y Chromosome Haplogroup R1b1b2 in
Europe
http://www.plosone.org/article/
info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal
.pone.0021592
Per Sjodin1*, Olivier Francois2
1 Department of Evolutionary Biology, Evolutionary Biology Centre, Uppsala
University, Norbyvagen, Uppsala, Sweden, 2 University Joseph Fourier Grenoble,
Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, TIMC-IMAG UMR 5525, Mathematical
and Computational Biology, Grenoble, France
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Abstract
Whether or not the spread of agriculture in Europe was accompanied by movements
of people is a long-standing question in archeology and anthropology, which has
been frequently addressed with the help of population genetic data. Estimates on
dates of expansion and geographic origins obtained from genetic data are however
sensitive to the calibration of mutation rates and to the mathematical models
used to perform inference. For instance, recent data on the Y chromosome
haplogroup
R1b1b2 (M269) have either suggested a Neolithic origin for European paternal
lineages or a more ancient Paleolithic origin depending on the calibration of Y-STR
mutation rates. Here we examine the date of expansion and the geographic origin
of hgR1b1b2 considering two current estimates of mutation rates in a total of
fourteen realistic wave-of-advance models. We report that a range expansion
dating to the Paleolithic is unlikely to explain the observed geographical
distribution of microsatellite
diversity, and that whether the data is informative with respect to the spread
of agriculture in Europe depends on the mutation rate assumption in a critical
way.
Citation: Sjodin P, Francois O (2011) Wave-of-Advance Models of the Diffusion of
the Y Chromosome
Haplogroup R1b1b2 in Europe. PLoS ONE 6(6): e21592.
doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0021592
Editor: Carles Lalueza-Fox, Institut de Biologia Evolutiva - Universitat Pompeu
Fabra, Spain
Received: March 3, 2011; Accepted: June 3, 2011; Published: June 24, 2011
Extract:
Wave-of-advance models with a
recent expansion date received higher support than models of Neolithic expansion
(Table 2, Figures 2'3).
We found it difficult to discriminate among models assuming
EMR
(Neolithic expansion) and models assuming
GMRs
(Recent expansion). An interpretation of our results is as support for the use
of the correction proposed by
Zhivotovsky et al [28], [29] in
wave-of-advance models. Historical events consistent with recent expansions from
the south of Europe during the Bronze age [19] or the Greek and Roman
civilization in Europe and West Asia [35] cannot be excluded, but the impact of
such demographic events on European genomes requires confirmation from ancient
DNA studies.
Skeptical Reaction?
Moisty
http://dna-forums.org/index.php'
/blog/2/entry-164-r1b1b2-in-
europe-dating-rethink/
26 June 2011 - 06:42 AM
If I read the Sjodin et al. paper correctly, the authors are comparing a
possible arrival of R1b 10,000 years ago ("neolithic") with an arrival 3,000
years ago. By 8,000 BC, the neolithic was still far from reaching the shores of
Europe, while 1,000 BC seems a bit late for a full population exchange in
Western Europe. With this parameterization, it's unlikely that their modelling
can provide us with any relevant insight anyway.
2. Henry Rhea: Admittedly Brit-Am Has a Point!
Re BAMAD-94
#1. Reply to Henry Rhea re the Lack of R1b in Ancient Europe.
http://britam.org/DNA/BAMAD94.html#1
Yair, hello.
You raise some good points for further study, particularly concerning the possibility of the scarcity of actual ancient dna samples. It may be that I have been assuming that there are far more known R1b samples from ancient specimens than actually exist. I am currently trying to find out if that is in fact the case.
In the meantime, something of which I was not aware until I began searching for more information on this subject and which you may already be aware of, did you know that the Discovery Channel aired a program some time back in which it revealed certain facts about King Tutankhaman's dna from tests to lead some knowledgeable observers to conclude that Tut and his male parental line were R1b1b2, apparently, and as such related to Basques as well as others of Europe today' The question has been raised in connection with that as to whether the samples could have been contaminated, but it seems as though the royal line of Egypt at least during that period were of R1b stock. Here is one link, and there are others:
http://www.theparacast.com/forum/
threads/8558-Tutankhamen-R1b
-DNA-bloodtype
As some point out, so too were the Berbers of Northwest Africa, and ancient Egypt was invaded by them and Libyans.
This is of course just one more piece of our ancient puzzle.
Henry Rhea
Follow up:
I've just begun viewing the YouTube video linked in the first post of the discussion I just sent the link to, and had to stop it just underway to send you this. Take a look at that video! It looks like it is well worth seeing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch'v=2wccgN4
67E8&feature=youtu.be
Brit-Am Comment:
The DNA test for King Tut showed he was R1b. We reported on this in the past.
e.g.
BAMAD-71
#5. More Remarks Concerning the R1b1b2 DNA of Tutankhamen and Family
http://www.britam.org/DNA/BAMAD71.html#More
BAMAD-72
#2. King Tutankahem and the Now Western DNA R1b1b2
http://www.britam.org/DNA/BAMAD72.html#King
It is however worth mentioning that these findings have not yet been confirmed.
We do not know if the test really was carried out on the mummy.
The Egyptians refuse to allow further testing.
3. Many Anglo-Saxons have Similar DNA to Dutch and North Germans!
Forget two world wars and one World Cup... geneticists reveal 50 per cent of Britons are GERMAN
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/
article-2005829/Half-Britons-German-
blood-geneticists-reveal.html
'ito=feeds-newsxml
Shared gene stems from Germanic tribesmen who first came ashore on the Kent coast in 449AD
Up to 200,000 believed to have crossed the North Sea to Britain, pillaging and raping after Romans left
By ALLAN HALL
Extracts:
It may come as a shock to those fond of quoting a world cup triumph and the outcome of two wars as signs of British superiority.
Scientists say that around half of Britons have German blood coursing through their veins.
Anybody who paid attention in their history lessons knows that tribes from northern Europe invaded Britain after the Romans left in around 410AD.
But research by leading geneticists reveals the extent to which the Germans became part of the nation's racial mix.
Together with archaeologists who have spent years on sites in the UK, they conclude that 50 per cent of us have some German blood.
Biologists at University College in London studied a segment of the Y chromosome that appears in almost all Danish and northern German men ' and found it surprisingly common in Great Britain.
Analysis of tooth enamel and bones found in Anglo-Saxon cemeteries supported these results.
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WHO WERE HENGIST AND HORSA?
Hengist and Horsa were two Germanic brothers who arrived on the south-east corner of England in 449 AD.
They are credited with leading the Angle, Saxon and Jutish armies that first conquered the Celts.
The siblings were called to Britain by the Celtic King Vortigem to defend his people against enemies including the Picts.
For their services, they were given the island of Thanet to live on.
However, following a series of falling-outs with the locals, they gradually came to own more and more land that eventually became known as the Kingdom of Kent.
Indeed, Hengist is traditionally named as the founder of the Kingdom of Kent.
German archeologist Heinrich Haerke believes 'up to 200,000 emigrants' crossed the North Sea, pillaging and raping and eventually settling.
The native Celts, softened by years of peace under the Romans, were no match for the raiding parties from across the North Sea.
Pottery and jewellery similar to that found in grave sites along the Elbe River in northern Germany has been unearthed in Anglo-Saxon cemeteries here.
There is also evidence the settlers remained in contact with relatives on the Continent for up to three generations.
Anglo-Saxon is a catch-all phrase to refer to the invaders of the fifth and sixth centuries AD.
Angles came from the southern part of the Danish peninsula and gave their name to England and the Saxons came from the north German plain.
There were other tribes ' such as the Jutes, from Jutland, who settled in Kent.
The Anglo-Saxons drove the Britons into Cornwall, Wales and the North, but a few centuries later faced waves of invaders themselves ' Vikings from Scandinavia and then the Normans in 1066.
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